will houllier ever get any credit ?

[liverbird04]

Winner of a ?tin-pot? treble at Liverpool, a mere turnkey at Lyon, will Houllier ever halt his critics?

 

 

 

 

Gabriele Marcotti spares a thought for a man who never seems to land the credit

 

 

 

For Olympique Lyonnais, it would seem the transition from dark horse to contender is long overdue. The French club have won four straight Ligue 1 titles and have reached the quarter-final stage of the Champions League for the third consecutive year. This season, they have lost just twice in all competitions, both defeats, ironically, at home.

It would seem Gerard Houllier?s revenge has finally been consummated. Mocked and derided, he left slamming the door at Liverpool. Twelve months later, his own achievements ? winning the Uefa Cup, FA Cup and League Cup in the same season ? were rubbished as some kind of ?tin pot? treble, compared to his successor, Rafa Benitez?s in helping Liverpool to their fifth European Cup in his first attempt.

 

Indeed, when it emerged that he showed up un-announced in the Liverpool dressing room in Istanbul to bask in the reflected glory of the Reds? triumph, even his own former assistant, Phil Thompson was somewhat critical.

 

?I would not have gone down to the changing rooms,? he said. ?It was Rafa?s day, the players? day and there was no need to be there.?

 

Or consider the words of Lyon?s Sylvain Wiltord, speaking out shortly before Houllier?s appointment: ?I don?t really mind who we get ... as long as it?s not Houllier!?

 

Shades of 1994 when, after failing to lead France to a place in the World Cup, Houllier came out and seemingly blamed everything on David Ginola for giving the ball away late in a qualifier against Bulgaria. For a manager to blame his own men is the ultimate no-no in the footballers? fraternity and it was enough to make him something of an outcast among the players. Once outside, he was never let back in.

 

Yet now his vengeance is being served ice-cold as Lyon seem to be the connoisseur?s choice to ruin it all for the European aristocrats in Milan, Turin and Barcelona.

 

The difficult part is assessing where Houllier?s influence begins and that of his predecessor, Rangers? new manager Paul Le Guen, ends. Le Guen painstakingly built a side which operated like clockwork. Players were bought specifically for his 4-5-1 system, an innovative scheme featuring a tight midfield three, wingers with licence to cut inside and a central reference point up front.

 

The system is predicated upon the central trio of Juninho Pernambucano (below), Mahamadou Diarra and Thiago, whom Houllier brought in to replace the departed Michael Essien. Juninho is the long-range threat ? indeed, he may be, alongside Andrea Pirlo, the best free-kick taker in the competition ? while the other two provide workrate and ball-winning.

 

Their presence allows the full-backs to push on and support the front three who, particularly under Houllier, are heavily rotated. Indeed, none of the striking corps ? including Florent Malouda, Hatem Ben Arfa, Wiltord and Sidney Govou as wide men, and Fred and John Carew as centre forwards ? has started as many as two-thirds of Lyon?s league matches this season.

 

Houllier?s critics say this is very much Le Guen?s team and the former Liverpool man is simply the Forrest Gump in the works. Put another way, Le Guen made the wind-up toy, wound it up and now Houllier gets to watch it go. It may be a harsh assessment; indeed Thiago has been a revelation and was very much Houllier?s choice. The two strikers he brought in ? Fred and Carew ? have been serviceable, if not prolific, netting just 14 goals in 42 combined league appearances.

 

Still, the impression remains that Houllier has taken over a turnkey operation. Lyon?s trademark defensive solidity pre-dates his arrival and many times it has felt as if the club?s game plan consisted primarily of shutting up shop at the back and waiting for something at the other end. With six useful forwards, plus Juninho?s ballistic exploits from set-pieces, the club usually found a goal from somewhere.

 

If you view European football as a yin and yang landscape split between the attacking philosophy of Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid or Milan on the one hand, and the defensive solidity of Chelsea, Juventus, Bayern or Liverpool on the other, there is no question Lyon belong in the latter camp. And in a Ligue 1 campaign which saw the trad itional powers ? Marseille, Paris Saint Germain and Lens ? seemingly hell-bent on self-destruction ? it has been enough to run away with Le Champ ionnat.

 

The thing about Lyon, and the reason the sceptics are still out in force, is that they have yet to be consistently tested against Europe?s top sides. In the last three seasons, they?ve faced teams from the continent?s big three leagues on three occasions. They had the better of Real Madrid in the group stage this year, winning 3-0 at the Stade Gerland and drawing 1-1 at the Bernabeu, but it was classic counter-attacking fare against shell-shocked opposition, not the kind of football to truly impress.

 

Last year, also in the group stage, they drew at Old Trafford and lost at home to Man United. And in 2003-04, they beat an out-of-their-depth Real Sociedad (a side with other concerns: they were fighting to avoid relegation domestically) home and away.

 

In light of all this, it?s hard to judge just how good they are. Most pundits look at their league position and the frequency with which they reach this stage of the competition and presume they must be a tough nut to crack. For the time being, they exist in a parallel sphere, like all foreign clubs did in the days when we thought of them as mysterious and exotic, before Sky and the web turned Michel Salgado and Gianluca Zambrotta into (quasi-)household names. What they need is a resounding performance on the big stage, a convincing win against a top European power in a game that truly matters. Like, say, a quarter-final against last season?s runners-up, AC Milan. They?ll get that chance come the end of the month.

 

And if they overcome the rossoneri, perhaps then Houllier will get his due. After all, when Liverpool won in Istanbul, nobody paid him any attention and all the credit went to Benitez. Which means that if Lyon too beat Milan, people will stop saying this is Le Guen?s time and finally give Houllier some respect, right?

 

Probably not ... poor Gerard.

 

http://www.sundayherald.com/54587

 

bit of a cheek from a fella who was one of the most critical of gerard houllier and practically laughed at his achievements but thats journalists for ya.

[Neil]

I think Houllier is a decent manager, and he has improved Lyon a bit, but most of the hard work was done by Le Guen. How many league titles had Lyon won before hand? They hadn't been doing too badly in Europe either. We'll see what happens when he has to totally rebuild the team, though I think he may rise to this challenge, why? The players he signed for Liverpool, a lot of them were more suited to the French league like Smicer/Cheyrou/Cisse, it's of a lower quality and so players like Cisse don't need to be as intelligent.

 

Lyon were already league champions when Le Guen took over from Santini. So it could be said that most of the hard work had already been done for him.

 

 

We'll soon see how good Le Guen really is, now he's at Rangers.

[Gunga Din]

 

We'll soon see how good Le Guen really is, now he's at Rangers.

 

 

yeah, coming first in a two horse race must be the biggest challange in football

[Neil]

yeah, coming first in a two horse race must be the biggest challange in football

 

True enough, but at least this time he does have to rebuild a team.

[Guest Anders Honoré]

And if they overcome the rossoneri, perhaps then Houllier will get his due. After all, when Liverpool won in Istanbul, nobody paid him any attention and all the credit went to Benitez. Which means that if Lyon too beat Milan, people will stop saying this is Le Guen’s time and finally give Houllier some respect, right?

 

That's a pertinent passage I think.

 

Apart from the challenge of doing better in the CL (which will be an accomplishment in itself if he does), Houllier's real challenge is next season when the team will begin to break apart and need to be rebuilt.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Anders Honoré

[Greenoak]

Lyon is the French Chelsea. You need to be a really bad manager to c**k that up.

 

GH is a very conservative manager and has just rolled on with last years formula. Changed almost nothing.

 

Got lucky by selling Eissien for 3 times his value so had a bit of money and has bought players from within the french league. hardly risky.

 

Just wished he would take Cisse for 10 mill. But he is not that stupid.

 

GH will only be seen as a euro success if he gets to the final. That will be improvement. Then he will get credit, what he has done up to now does not deserve credit. Winning the french league for the 5th time is not worthy of much credit. I would expect almost any premiership manager could do it.

 

GH is French all over. His problem with Liverpool was buying every french future star and trying to get them to adapt to his way. He has not made that mistake again.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Greenoak

[Guest Anders Honoré]

GH will only be seen as a euro success if he gets to the final. That will be improvement. Then he will get credit, what he has done up to now does not deserve credit. Winning the french league for the 5th time is not worthy of much credit. I would expect almost any premiership manager could do it.

 

What b*llocks.

 

He's improved the four times league champions, of course he deserves credit, that is not easy.

 

It doesn't make him a fantastic manager, but it certainly distinguishes him from the dross that is most premiership managers.

[charlie clown]

at almost any other club GH would be an absolute legend for what he did in his time with us. Trouble was he was walking in the shadows of some very high achievers. That's not GH's fault and I think people who write him off should get a grip.

[Guz]

All Rafa did is take over

an excellent team,

 

Eh, are you sure? I love Houllier and all but Rafa took over a side that had been completely slashed of its confidence and self belief. Any natural creativity or spark in the team had been drained away except in the case of Gerrard and he too seemed totally dissolusioned with the players around him . We were going no where at the time and needed a change quickly. People are saying that we've hit a wall now but contrast that to the summer of 2004 and we really had hit a wall and had totally ran out of ideas.

[jimbolala]

to say gh had nothing to do with istanbul is fair, to say gh has nothing to do with lyon's success is fair...to say both is bloody stupid and shows that there exists an agenda other than football....he done wonders for us, only a few years ago we were winning the trbele, getting 2 in the league...i read an interview and he was correct in saying if he had done that at any other club bar utd, he would have been a hero...but he sold our robbie, thats what irks most isnt it

[_00_deathscar]

Eh, are you sure?

 

I think, if I'm interpreting it correctly, that it was a sarccy comment based on the hypocrisy of the press - refusing to give Houllier any credit for Lyon's success because 'they were already succesful'.

[fyds]

GH is French all over

 

..and in ignorant statatements like that, we have summed up why too many will never give him the credit he deserves.

 

When the time for Rafa to leave comes, unless he's won the lot several times - he will have been 'too Spanish'.

[Guest Scot]

To be honest I think the credit GH gets is about right.

 

The consensus seems to be that he did a good job of transforming the ethos of the club but lacked the wherewithal to take us right to the top. By some he's revered as a God, by others he's considered a bit of a mouth who blagged his way to mediocrity. They sort of cancel each other out.

[Woodsyla]

To be honest I think the credit GH gets is about right.

 

The consensus seems to be that he did a good job of transforming the ethos of the club but lacked the wherewithal to take us right to the top. By some he's revered as a God, by others he's considered a bit of a mouth who blagged his way to mediocrity. They sort of cancel each other out.

 

I don't think he the lacked the wherewithal to take us to the top, I think his illness took away the opportunity for him to do it. Houllier is naturally defensively minded, the team he built at Liverpool was a counter attacking side and was very succesful. Who is to say what would have happened if GH had not been taken ill. Bayern won the European Cup and dominated their league playing an effective brand of defensively solid football who is to say that if instead of signing Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou from his sickbed GH had signed Eto, Carrick and Duff that things may have taken a different turn.

 

I don't dispute that GH failed what I don't accept is that we werent heading in the right direction when he was taken ill.

[Ombudsam]

he went a bit funny after his illness

[sutty]

. Bayern won the European Cup and dominated their league playing an effective brand of defensively solid football who is to say that if instead of signing Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou from his sickbed GH had signed Eto, Carrick and Duff that things may have taken a different turn.

 

 

 

If my auntie had b******s...

 

I thought GH had left the foundations of a good side

 

But when you look at it with the benefit of hindsight those foundations weren't quite as solid as it 1st appeared. Look at the turnover that was required in the team. Though admittedly the back 4 and Steven Gerrard remain.

Edited March 14, 2006 by sutty

[Guest Scot]

I don't think he the lacked the wherewithal to take us to the top, I think his illness took away the opportunity for him to do it. Houllier is naturally defensively minded, the team he built at Liverpool was a counter attacking side and was very succesful. Who is to say what would have happened if GH had not been taken ill. Bayern won the European Cup and dominated their league playing an effective brand of defensively solid football who is to say that if instead of signing Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou from his sickbed GH had signed Eto, Carrick and Duff that things may have taken a different turn.

 

I don't dispute that GH failed what I don't accept is that we werent heading in the right direction when he was taken ill.

 

Yeah possibly. I don't think he had it in him to change THAT team, which isn't to say he's not a top manager. I think he'd reached a dead-end with us. As Sutty says, the foundations were a little more shaky than was thought. Although the back four remains, there is a real need for cover right across the back and we're likely to shift out two keepers.

 

Essentially Rafa's tossed it all out and started over.

[jfogarty]

Gerard Houllier gives Houllier enough credit

[fyds]

Gerard Houllier gives Houllier enough credit

Examples?

[Ombudsam]

to say he was predominantely defensive & played on the counter is slightly misleading. We did average 2 goals per game over a 63 game season in 2001. That's certainly quite positive up front

Using that logic rafa is the world's most defensive coach

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

Mourinho