Liverpool Legends (players not the charity (mate) match)

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

thinking about this & Trent and how he's unlikely to be classed as a legend now he's f***ing off - 'legend' gets thrown about quite a lot, often very generously. So thinking about say 3 tiers - A for bone-fide legends, B for debatable and C for players who are often called legends but aren't - 

A - the likes of Hunt, St.John, Cally, Tosh, Kenny, Rush, Hansen, Thommo, Clemence...

B - tougher as there's going to be loads of debate - is Keegan A or B? 

C - Torres, Suarez - they weren't here long enough and then f***ed off under clouds

[PaulMcC186]

I reckon everyone who played a big part in winning the league and European Cup under Klopp have a good argument to be considered legends.

Everyone probably have a different definition of what they consider a legend.

Edited Monday at 15:17 by PaulMcC186

[YugoB]

Agreed with the above. Trent would have 2 [touch wood] league titles under his name, with a CL, few domestic cups, and was part of another 2 CL final runs during his time here. He'd absolutely be a legend in my eyes.

 

[surf]

Some criteria like need to be inserted like integral, scored important goals, etc. Otherwise Wes Brown is a Man United legend.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

2 hours ago, surf said:

Some criteria like need to be inserted like integral, scored important goals, etc. Otherwise Wes Brown is a Man United legend.

"f***ed off and left a bad taste in the mouth" = not a legend

[downunder]

3 hours ago, Sir Tokyo Sexwale said:

"f***ed off and left a bad taste in the mouth" = not a legend

Owen won trophies, was truly brilliant for us .  He is a legend but a tainted one. I can’t forget how good he was when playing for us.

Suarez was the best player - to me - to play for us (skill wise) but to me doesn’t have the longevity or medals to be a legend.

Traore, Biscan  and quite a few of the 2005 team played in a legendary game but again   are not legends to me.

Here in  Aus a 6 year completing a year at school is called a legend….  Mad use of the word

 

[PhilM]

I mean, if you take it literally, players who we'll be telling our great grandkids about. I know I'll be talking about Luis Suarez and what an absolute joke of a footballer he was until the day I die. I'm not sure I'll be waxing lyrical about Bobby Firmino for example in the same way.

[YugoB]

37 minutes ago, PhilM said:

I mean, if you take it literally, players who we'll be telling our great grandkids about. I know I'll be talking about Luis Suarez and what an absolute joke of a footballer he was until the day I die. I'm not sure I'll be waxing lyrical about Bobby Firmino for example in the same way.

Suarez was a better player for sure, but it's not like Firmino wasn't doing things on the pitch that you wouldn't tell your grandkids about.

 

[PhilM]

Yeah, but in your list of mad stuff to tell the grandkids, as soon as you've covered The Life and Times of Divock Origi, you're probably going onto Suarez next.

[YugoB]

2 minutes ago, PhilM said:

Yeah, but in your list of mad stuff to tell the grandkids, as soon as you've covered The Life and Times of Divock Origi, you're probably going onto Suarez next.

Might be just personal preference, I haven't thought once about Suarez since Jurgen rebuild the side and we started doing what we have over the years. I got too many negative connotations with Suarez in mind and his antics whilst here. 

Edited Tuesday at 13:45 by YugoB

[RedHarvest]

Barnes and Gerrard have to go in column A

Allison and Virg too even though its early days, they could both yet f*** off somewhere and permostain their reps

[Ant]

The term legend is meaningless ultimately I think it's about evoking a feeling when you think of them. 

For example when I think of Origi - I have the biggest smile on my face which is incomparable with absolutely any player you wish to throw at me. 

Trent is a 'legend' if you want to use that term, but if he leaves in the way he's looking at leaving my first thoughts won't be of joy, but ultimately time is a healer so who knows. 

 

[PhilM]

30 minutes ago, YugoB said:

Might be just personal preference, I haven't thought once about Suarez since Jurgen rebuild the side and we started doing what we have over the years. I got too many negative connotations with Suarez in mind and his antics whilst here. 

I mean, that's totally fair. He was a sensational player and also a massive b*****d in equal measure.

[Ant]

He’s still by some considerable distance the most talented player I’ve ever seen play for Liverpool. Suarez that is 

[Gethin]

For me at least. there's a difference between players that have done legendary things for Liverpool and legendary Liverpool players. Kenny is a legend, Divock did something legendary 

[Cobs]

7 minutes ago, Gethin said:

For me at least. there's a difference between players that have done legendary things for Liverpool and legendary Liverpool players. Kenny is a legend, Divock did something legendary 

Smicer being another

[PhilM]

"Did something legendary" is underplaying it. Div did many legendary things.

Is Jordan Henderson a Liverpool Legend? Feels like the captain of league or European Cup winning sides gets it by default.

[Gethin]

10 minutes ago, PhilM said:

"Did something legendary" is underplaying it. Div did many legendary things.

 

What is there that's genuinely legendary apart from the goal against Everton? The CL final goal was great but not (for me) legendary. "Corner taken quickly" was mainly on Trent. 

(I liked DIvock BTW) 

Edited Tuesday at 14:49 by Gethin

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

17 minutes ago, PhilM said:

"Did something legendary" is underplaying it. Div did many legendary things.

Is Jordan Henderson a Liverpool Legend? Feels like the captain of league or European Cup winning sides gets it by default.

tricky one that, maybe time will tell. I can't think why not really, played for us for about a decade and captained us to a league & European Cup win. I was a big fan of Hendo too so any hesitancy isn't anti-Hendo bias that a lot of people sort of had

[YugoB]

6 minutes ago, Gethin said:

What is there that's genuinely legendary apart from the goal against Everton? The CL final goal was great but not (for me) legendary. "Corner taken quickly" was mainly on Trent. 

(I liked DIvock BTW) 

He scored 2 goals against Barca, and you can argue it was mostly on Trent for the 2nd, but that was a difficult finish and he hit it first time. He scored the winner against Newcastle that kept our hopes alive for the title until the last day.

Scored a brace vs the bitters in our title league winning season, when Jurgen rested most of our starting forwards, he scored a brilliant goal. Scored against them again in 21/22, towards the end, to make it 2-0. 

Played a part in the comeback v Dortmund.

[PhilM]

I always knew that Gethin was a massive f***in fridge.

[YugoB]

Also you cant downplay the 2nd goal v Spurs. Yeah we contained Spurs, but with 3 minutes to go, anything is possible when everyone is mentally and physically exhausted, so for him to seal that and kill their hopes was massive.

 

Edited Tuesday at 15:04 by YugoB

[Gethin]

5 minutes ago, Sir Tokyo Sexwale said:

tricky one that, maybe time will tell. I can't think why not really, played for us for about a decade and captained us to a league & European Cup win. I was a big fan of Hendo too so any hesitancy isn't anti-Hendo bias that a lot of people sort of had

The problem is how you define a legend? My gut instinct is to start with "would they be in the conversation for the All-time 1st or 2nd Liverpool XI"* but I think that's problematic as it excludes players like Hendo and Bobby who should be in that conversation as they were massive parts of winning the League, CL and getting to another two finals. 

*Let's not turn this thread into that discussion, I think there's other threads where it's been done to death

 

3 minutes ago, YugoB said:

He scored 2 goals against Barca, and you can argue it was mostly on Trent for the 2nd, but that was a difficult finish and he hit it first time. He scored the winner against Newcastle that kept our hopes alive for the title until the last day.

Scored a brace vs the bitters in our title league winning season, when Jurgen rested most of our starting forwards, he scored a brilliant goal. Scored against them again in 21/22, towards the end, to make it 2-0. 

Played a part in the comeback v Dortmund.

Are they really *legendary* things though? That's mostly the type of thing you expect your strikers to do - the Everton moment was something truly exceptional which we'll be talking about for decades. 

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

Just now, Gethin said:

The problem is how you define a legend? My gut instinct is to start with "would they be in the conversation for the All-time 1st or 2nd Liverpool XI"* but I think that's problematic as it excludes players like Hendo and Bobby who should be in that conversation as they were massive parts of winning the League, CL and getting to another two finals. 

*Let's not turn this thread into that discussion, I think there's other threads where it's been done to death

 

Are they really *legendary* things though? That's mostly the type of thing you expect your strikers to do - the Everton moment was something truly exceptional which we'll be talking about for decades. 

yeah - I'd say Bobby is and Hendo I'm on the fence with so I need to figure out why

[YugoB]

5 minutes ago, Gethin said:

The problem is how you define a legend? My gut instinct is to start with "would they be in the conversation for the All-time 1st or 2nd Liverpool XI"* but I think that's problematic as it excludes players like Hendo and Bobby who should be in that conversation as they were massive parts of winning the League, CL and getting to another two finals. 

*Let's not turn this thread into that discussion, I think there's other threads where it's been done to death

 

Are they really *legendary* things though? That's mostly the type of thing you expect your strikers to do - the Everton moment was something truly exceptional which we'll be talking about for decades. 

Scoring 2 goals against a side that beat us 3-0, whilst not having Mo and Firmino, is indeed legendary, especially as the 4th goal came towards the end of the game. That was probably more difficult than winning the final against Spurs. 

 

Had he also won the league that year, his winner v Newcastle would have been a massive reason why we did it because he had scored late on in that game as well. The everton moment was exceptional because it was bloody stupid and a massive c**k up by Pickford, it wasn't an extraordinary piece of football play, but everything around that moment highlights it. So if that's exceptional in your mind, then the other moments I just touched on are as well 

To me he's the ultimate cult hero, because he had burst of moments, but not an overall career here that stood out consistently. 

Henderson is a legend as well, I'm not too found of him, but going from a player that was nearly sold to Fulham, in one of the worst sides we've had, to being part of a midfield that help win and challenge for multiple things over the years, up against the biggest financially doped behemoth, is legendary in my eyes. 

Edited Tuesday at 15:11 by YugoB