Views on players changing....

[jimbolala]

Way back in the day Fowler was my hero. Here he was, a lad brought from within, could score any type of goal and looked like he would be up there with the worlds best. Then I read his book and it brought a different view , I wasnt that fond of the person in this book, he pissed me off a bit to be fair, I thought he was whiney, missed out on learning opportunities and felt sorry for himself,  in short it knocked him of the pedestal I had him on.

I then saw the interview he done with Neville and again i wasnt that impressed by him, yes he was honest but again there was a bitter side to him. In short he didnt seem to accept he had any cause in his own downfall or failure to succeed. 

In contrast,  for years we've labelled Owen as someone akin to a traitor for leaving as Benitez came in. We thought it was just about the money, especially when he went to Newcastle. Again in an interview with Neville, my view changed. He was incredibly intelligent and explained why and how he would beat a defender or a goalie, slowing down, taking a touch, speeding up again.  He also reflected on his relationship with Liverpool. He stated that at every opportunity he wanted to return,to the point he had it written into his contract at Newcastle that if Liverpool came in, they only had to pay a certain percentage of the fee that Newcastle had paid for him, diminishing year after year. 

Strange how our views take hold on us,  despite at times us having no evidence,other than what we see on a pitch and to be fair, all that shows is how good they are at the game.  I wonder in times to come, who will be seen differently?

[Big Red Machine]

I've moved away from reading most books by/about footballers because the more you learn the more difficult it is to respect them a lot of the time. There's normally something that leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Think it was Carra's book years ago where he talks about setting his mate on some guy who caused some trouble. Just thought "really?".

[Ethan]

I used to like Carra, the spitting incident really put me off him to be honest, that was disgusting. 

I absolutely hate Carra and more so McManaman commentating on our games now, tedious.

[Maharajkumar of Vizianagram]

2 hours ago, Big Red Machine said:

 

Think it was Carra's book years ago where he talks about setting his mate on some guy who caused some trouble. Just thought "really?".

Never read it but I thought this bit was about Lucas Neill, some time after he broke his leg? 

From memory his mates spotted him on a night out and called Carra offering to attack him and Carra magnanimously declined?

f***ing juvenile and embarrassing mentioning it in the book though.

[PaulMcC186]

After Lucas Neill purposely broke Carragher's leg, Carragher's mates seen Neill at the Trafford Centre. They asked Carragher should they do anything to him and he said no cos Neill was with David Thompson.

[Billy Talbot]

Pirlo's book was disappointing. He's no football genius. Comes across as a bit dim. 

[Maharajkumar of Vizianagram]

Just now, Billy Talbot said:

Pirlo's book was disappointing. He's no football genius. Comes across as a bit dim. 

Really? I thought it was f***ing hilarious 

[Billy Talbot]

35 minutes ago, Aritro said:

Really? I thought it was f***ing hilarious 

Well... it had it's moments, but didn't really reveal anything other than him being a typical footballer I thought. Somewhat I ironic given the title and his reputation but there we have it. 

I think Hamann's is the funniest I've read. 

Doctor Socrates, which is a biography is the best one I've read. That's great. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Billy Talbot

[Cam]

"Views on players changing...." 

Well, they have to innit. Otherwise the game would be a whole lot more difficult to play in suits and brogues. 

[downunder]

I have got to know Fowler really well,  and to me he so one of the nicest ex players, down to earth and really honest and friendly.

 

[Walrus]

Thank God for this. Was slightly worried that this thread would consist of pictures from different angles about the players changing.

Why did I open it then? Why?

[kop205]

2 hours ago, Billy Talbot said:

 

I think Hamann's is the funniest I've read

Jesus, really?

That 'Life, Kaiser' story does nothing for me and that's before you get onto the last couple of chapters where he goes on some weird alt-right meltdown.

[Billy Talbot]

2 hours ago, kop205 said:

Jesus, really?

That 'Life, Kaiser' story does nothing for me and that's before you get onto the last couple of chapters where he goes on some weird alt-right meltdown.

Ha. I don't remember this about it. Was probably 10 years since I read it. Something cricket. Something about a brown BMW interior. I won't revisit it if that's bad

[PhilM]

14 hours ago, Aritro said:

Really? I thought it was f***ing hilarious 

I agree, I loved the bits about him winding up Gattuso.

Zlatan's autobiography was funny too.

[Stanley Leisure]

18 hours ago, jimbolala said:

Way back in the day Fowler was my hero. Here he was, a lad brought from within, could score any type of goal and looked like he would be up there with the worlds best. Then I read his book and it brought a different view , I wasnt that fond of the person in this book, he pissed me off a bit to be fair, I thought he was whiney, missed out on learning opportunities and felt sorry for himself,  in short it knocked him of the pedestal I had him on.

I then saw the interview he done with Neville and again i wasnt that impressed by him, yes he was honest but again there was a bitter side to him. In short he didnt seem to accept he had any cause in his own downfall or failure to succeed. 

In contrast,  for years we've labelled Owen as someone akin to a traitor for leaving as Benitez came in. We thought it was just about the money, especially when he went to Newcastle. Again in an interview with Neville, my view changed. He was incredibly intelligent and explained why and how he would beat a defender or a goalie, slowing down, taking a touch, speeding up again.  He also reflected on his relationship with Liverpool. He stated that at every opportunity he wanted to return,to the point he had it written into his contract at Newcastle that if Liverpool came in, they only had to pay a certain percentage of the fee that Newcastle had paid for him, diminishing year after year. 

Strange how our views take hold on us,  despite at times us having no evidence,other than what we see on a pitch and to be fair, all that shows is how good they are at the game.  I wonder in times to come, who will be seen differently?

I felt some sympathy for Owen after listening to him on Carra’s podcast, certainly more than I had done previously, but the reality is he made some stupid career decisions because he is a weird meff. 

[Ombudsam]

1 hour ago, Stanley Leisure said:

I felt some sympathy for Owen after listening to him on Carra’s podcast, certainly more than I had done previously, but the reality is he made some stupid career decisions because he is a weird meff. 

Can’t believe the journey you took me on in so few words.

[Cobs]

1 hour ago, Stanley Leisure said:

I felt some sympathy for Owen after listening to him on Carra’s podcast, certainly more than I had done previously, but the reality is he made some stupid career decisions because he is a weird meff. 

well, he made one stupid decision - the rest was the Gods of fate f***ing him up the a*** for making that one stupid decision

[Leo No.8]

I think Owen is judged too harshly myself but I understand why. What a player he was by the way from around the age of 18 to 21. Never the same after his hammy went against Leeds.

[Hassony]

On 14/12/2020 at 23:13, downunder said:

I have got to know Fowler really well,  and to me he so one of the nicest ex players, down to earth and really honest and friendly.

 

Who is the worst from the ones that you've met? 

16 hours ago, Leo No.8 said:

I think Owen is judged too harshly myself but I understand why. 

Because he joined United? I was always ok with him until that move 

[Beardsley]

I just never could warm to Owen, even when he was absolutely setting the world on fire for us. When he f***ed off when Rafa needed him and later joined United he was dead to me.

[PaulMcC186]

I still don't really dislike Owen. He was amazing for us, I'll never forget 2001 FA Cup final. He was a d****ead joining United but we didn't want him, and I think the choice was United or someone like Hull. I wouldn't have done it if I was him, but footballers mostly do what's best for them.

Edited December 16, 2020 by PaulMcC186

[Cam]

I hated Owen for the contract-dodging, leaving for next to nothing, picking Newcastle.  But I never had an issue with him going to the Mancs; there were the best around, offered great money, a chance to win trophies, working with Ferguson.  Few players - never mind an ageing player who had underachieved in his career, struggling with injuries, lost the pace that was so much of his game - would turn it down at the time.

As for the stuff in my first sentence... the lying about signing a contract imminently and leaving for peanuts leaves a bad taste still but it's a football issue now rather than Owen; they all do it.  Madrid was a great opportunity (that didn't work out) and he's explained Newcastle very well indeed.  I quite liked that he went to Stoke because it's what proper superstars used to do in the 60s & 70s - drop down a level to cloggers and get shown up!

I don't hate him at all.  I don't adore him either.  He's just kinda meh to me, like a Kvarme or a Scales.  He gave us some great times - watching the clips of 2001 on The 30 Year Wait last night just brought goosebumps - but otherwise he's just a bloke on the telly.

And he's a decent studio pundit now (awful co-commentator but aren't they all?).  I think it was Hassony who first pointed out how Owen is particularly good talking about forwards and their thinking & movement and having watched him since I have to say that (sadly) Hass is correct. 

[Cobs]

Owen was a brilliant player for us - but at his peak (before all the bad career choices) he wasn't widely loved - certainly compared to Robbie.

used to be many a koptalk thread about it

[PaulMcC186]

He wasn't as loved as much as Fowler, no one was, but he was still loved in his first few years.

[cymrococh]

Carragher seems fine - I like his podcast, but the spitting and his propensity for bantz go against him massively.

I'm not as enamoured with Barnes (the person) as many people are, I think his book is probably the first one I read by someone I loved and I was gutted by the bit where he said he was waiting for Madrid or Juve to come in for him before he accepted our offer. I also remember him appearing on some reality endurance show in the Arctic Circle and he was a massive fanny. I also don't think he's as clever or insightful as many people seem to think he is.