So, what's Jurgen thinking.. tactics and formations

[Chewie]

The transfer window has gone and we know two things: 

 

1. We spent the highest money on one player (VVD) than any other club in England - that we could not achieve in the summer

2. We sold the player for the highest sum compared to any other club in England - that we were able to block in the summer. A major reason given in the summer was 'timing'. We had no time to prepare for Phil's departure. 

 

We've now had time and this is the business we have conducted. Let's park all the whys and wherefores as to what we did or did not achieve in the window. What is Jurgen thinking now about how we are able to cope Feb- May without Phil, in a manner that we could not have coped Aug - Dec. On a good day, when we wake up positive.. 

 

1. Team Depth

Jurgen will be thinking

- we now have two players for both full back slots compared to this time last year

- we know have a world class centre half to sit alongside whoever stakes a claim to partner him

- last year for midfield we had Henderson, Can, Gini, Lallana and occasionally Phil (mostly played in the front three) 

- this year for midfield we have Henderson, Can, Gini, Lallana, Milner and Ox

- last year for attack we had Firmino, Mane, Phil with Origi and Sturridge in reserve (the latter doing well in the last 3-4 games for us) 

- this year for attack we have Firmino, Mane, Salah with Ings and Solanke as back up

 

so, Jurgen is thinking we are stronger at full back, centre half, we have one more player for the midfield, and we are like for like in attack. He has lost Phil but gained

VVD

Robertson

Ox

Salah

TAA & Gomez

Milner in midfield

 

2. Formations

Building on the personnel Jurgen's options are: 

4-3-3 is his default, most likely including Henderson plus 2 from 5 out of Can, Gini, Milner, Lallana, Ox

 

In this set-up both Ox and Lallana offer potential backup playing left or right of the front 3 allowing rotation of this three

 

Lallana on the left is aided by Robertson overlapping. It rests Mane, or allows Mane to play up front and rest Bobby or to play wide right and rest Salah

 

Ox on the right allows him to rest Salah or to rest Bobby with Salah playing up front

 

He can play Henderson at the base and then use both Ox and Lallana in midfield along with Salah, Mane and Solanke - resting Bobby and surrounding Solanke with attacking threat. 

 

His set-up against Huddersfield saw Can overlapping as the midfielder on the right and Robertson as fullback pushing up on the left. (Back in the 80s we played with Barnes as a winger on the left and Houghton as an inside-right). So, Jurgen can use the threat down the left differently than from the right. 

 

He can also play four across the middle but very much push the fullbacks on (using TAA or Gomez playing higher up the pitch) and picking 2 from 3 of Bobby, Salah or Mane. 

 

In games that he has won he can use Ings or Solanke as subs. 

 

 

 

So, going into the final 3-4 months of the season Jurgen is thinking he is stronger at the back, better fullback options, has one extra man for midfield, with the same level of threat up front. 

 

Game on. 13 league games to go and a CL run to enjoy.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DecidedByPoll]

He’s also rotated loads and had the players running less. I think we’ll be the freshest team in the top 6.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

Tldr

[Molby]

about rotation: how much down time have our front three had?

 

obv the MF have but they've averaged 6/10 this season IMO so it's not as important

[David Hodgson]

The trick will be in finding a way to be potent without one of the ‘fab 3’.

 

There is a template for how to do it - Stoke away, where we started without Coutinho and Salah.

 

I also think that a front 4 of Lallana, Chamberlain , Solanke and Salah could do bits for us on an occasion or two.

 

Another option is a 3 at the back and a 3 1 4 2 set up :

 

Gomez , VVD, Lovren

 

Henderson

 

Trent, Lallana , Chamberlain, Robertson

 

Mane, Firmino

about rotation: how much down time have our front three had?

 

obv the MF have but they've averaged 6/10 this season IMO so it's not as important

Salah and Firmino have played 2600 minutes each so far, but Mane only 1600. So, in theory, he could be asked to play nearly every game.

 

Also, even if we go all the way in Europe, we average a game every 6 days. It’s not that onerous .

 

Looking at fixtures it gets congested into April, so there’s a real extra incentive to get CL qualification close to being boxed early. Being able to play a bit below full strength teams in the prem in the last 4 games would ease matters significantly . I think we need a 6 point lead by the end of game 34.

 

Which is why beating spurs this Sunday would be massive .

[Molby]

how have we rotated compared to our rivals?

that's probably a good way of knowing how fresh we are

 

we can play several variations that involve a front two

 

but I think Firmino will always have to play, or Solanke make a big improvement, particularly in holding up and quickly bring others in to the game, as we've lost Coutinho and Salah can't pass to himself

and  Lallana's always injured  - he needs to be playing MF not up front. just as Firmino has to play central not wide; we must not regress from what we learned last season

I also don't trust Ox yet; so far I haven't been that impressed other than a couple of occasions

I see his potential but I saw it at Arsenal

 

some luck with injuries, a little bit of gambling (in the context of decent defending of course) with resting players but having them on the bench and we should be fine

 

could really do with a good result on Sunday obv.

Wijnaldum, Hendo and Can have to be on it - this game is made for them to step up and tbf they usually do in these situations

but they will need a little bit of defensive help from the front three this time I think

[Ombudsam]

The transfer window has gone and we know two things: 

 

1. We spent the highest money on one player (VVD) than any other club in England - that we could not achieve in the summer

2. We sold the player for the highest sum compared to any other club in England - that we were able to block in the summer. A major reason given in the summer was 'timing'. We had no time to prepare for Phil's departure. 

 

We've now had time and this is the business we have conducted. Let's park all the whys and wherefores as to what we did or did not achieve in the window. What is Jurgen thinking now about how we are able to cope Feb- May without Phil, in a manner that we could not have coped Aug - Dec. On a good day, when we wake up positive.. 

 

1. Team Depth

Jurgen will be thinking

- we now have two players for both full back slots compared to this time last year

- we know have a world class centre half to sit alongside whoever stakes a claim to partner him

- last year for midfield we had Henderson, Can, Gini, Lallana and occasionally Phil (mostly played in the front three) 

- this year for midfield we have Henderson, Can, Gini, Lallana, Milner and Ox

- last year for attack we had Firmino, Mane, Phil with Origi and Sturridge in reserve (the latter doing well in the last 3-4 games for us) 

- this year for attack we have Firmino, Mane, Salah with Ings and Solanke as back up

 

so, Jurgen is thinking we are stronger at full back, centre half, we have one more player for the midfield, and we are like for like in attack. He has lost Phil but gained

VVD

Robertson

Ox

Salah

TAA & Gomez

Milner in midfield

 

2. Formations

Building on the personnel Jurgen's options are: 

4-3-3 is his default, most likely including Henderson plus 2 from 5 out of Can, Gini, Milner, Lallana, Ox

 

In this set-up both Ox and Lallana offer potential backup playing left or right of the front 3 allowing rotation of this three

 

Lallana on the left is aided by Robertson overlapping. It rests Mane, or allows Mane to play up front and rest Bobby or to play wide right and rest Salah

 

Ox on the right allows him to rest Salah or to rest Bobby with Salah playing up front

 

He can play Henderson at the base and then use both Ox and Lallana in midfield along with Salah, Mane and Solanke - resting Bobby and surrounding Solanke with attacking threat. 

 

His set-up against Huddersfield saw Can overlapping as the midfielder on the right and Robertson as fullback pushing up on the left. (Back in the 80s we played with Barnes as a winger on the left and Houghton as an inside-right). So, Jurgen can use the threat down the left differently than from the right. 

 

He can also play four across the middle but very much push the fullbacks on (using TAA or Gomez playing higher up the pitch) and picking 2 from 3 of Bobby, Salah or Mane. 

 

In games that he has won he can use Ings or Solanke as subs. 

 

 

 

So, going into the final 3-4 months of the season Jurgen is thinking he is stronger at the back, better fullback options, has one extra man for midfield, with the same level of threat up front. 

 

Game on. 13 league games to go and a CL run to enjoy..

 

People are reading this? All of it?

[épieur]

We're stretched thin ATM. The front three could use a break,but those who might have rotated with them are either sold, injured or needed in midfield.

[Cobs]

People are reading this? All of it?

No. Someone will knock it down to 15 words or less though. Then I’m in.

[melia]

No. Someone will knock it down to 15 words or less though. Then I’m in.

Jurgen thinks the defence is better, more options at fullback and midfield, equal attacking threat.

[Ombudsam]

Jurgen thinks the defence is better, more options at fullback and midfield, equal attacking threat.

Cool, thanks.

 

I think that’s wrong.

[melia]

Cool, thanks.

 

I think that’s wrong.

It may be, I've no idea what Jurgen is thinking. To be honest, I was only focussed on the 15-word challenge. I may have even interpreted the original post incorrectly but,15 words.

[David Hodgson]

how have we rotated compared to our rivals?

that's probably a good way of knowing how fresh we are

 

we can play several variations that involve a front two

 

but I think Firmino will always have to play, or Solanke make a big improvement, particularly in holding up and quickly bring others in to the game, as we've lost Coutinho and Salah can't pass to himself

and  Lallana's always injured  - he needs to be playing MF not up front. just as Firmino has to play central not wide; we must not regress from what we learned last season

I also don't trust Ox yet; so far I haven't been that impressed other than a couple of occasions

I see his potential but I saw it at Arsenal

 

some luck with injuries, a little bit of gambling (in the context of decent defending of course) with resting players but having them on the bench and we should be fine

 

could really do with a good result on Sunday obv.

Wijnaldum, Hendo and Can have to be on it - this game is made for them to step up and tbf they usually do in these situations

but they will need a little bit of defensive help from the front three this time I think

I saw a stat the other day (can't find it now) that had us as the team that changed our team more than any other in the PL this season, by some distance. We averaged something like 4.5 changes per game whilst the average was around 2.6 - 2.9 for the rest.

[Cobs]

Jurgen thinks the defence is better, more options at fullback and midfield, equal attacking threat.

So he thinks his keepers are crap, by omission?

I saw a stat the other day (can't find it now) that had us as the team that changed our team more than any other in the PL this season, by some distance. We averaged something like 4.5 changes per game whilst the average was around 2.6 - 2.9 for the rest.

Yeah, there were stats knocking around about it pre-Christmas. Most changes by any team bar one United side in the history of the PL https://mobile.twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/940535793159778305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisisanfield.com%2F2017%2F12%2Feye-opening-stat-reveals-extent-jurgen-klopps-rotation-liverpool-season%2F

 

Albeit there's been 9 League games since then

Edited February 3, 2018 by Cobs

[Molby]

That’s encouraging

how about the number of changes involving our top 3 players ?

 

I’m asking because if we lost Firmino, Salah or Mane it would be a bit of a setback but not so much with the others

 

Except Robertson if it meant Moreno coming back

Or VVD, but then those two have already missed plenty so should be fresh

[The_Adder]

Great post Chewie and made me feel a lot better about the transfer window.

 

Thanks.

[David Hodgson]

That’s encouraging

how about the number of changes involving our top 3 players ?

 

I’m asking because if we lost Firmino, Salah or Mane it would be a bit of a setback but not so much with the others

 

Except Robertson if it meant Moreno coming back

Or VVD, but then those two have already missed plenty so should be fresh

There’s a good piece in today’s sunday times by Jon northcroft about this. Showing how our Firmino and Salah have played considerably less minutes this season than their peers (de Bruyne, Kane etc ).

[rednotdead]

There’s a good piece in today’s sunday times by Jon northcroft about this. Showing how our Firmino and Salah have played considerably less minutes this season than their peers (de Bruyne, Kane etc ).

Here's some of the details from that:

 

 

 

From a physical point of view, Klopp knows exactly what he's doing - he has a university sports science degree and has long been a master of producing on-pitch intensity. Learning from 2016-17, when Liverpool were knackered by new year and won 2 in 12 in January/February, getting 16 injuries, he has rotated like no manager before.

But is inconsistent selection one reasons for the inconsistent displays?

"We're not inconsistent" say some reds. I think a side who can blow away City, then almost lose in the last 10 mins, then lose to Swansea & WBA, then stroll it v Huddersfield, could do with more consistency.

But I also expect Liverpool to benefit from the rotation from now on and finish 2017-18 very strongly.

The extent of the rotation is incredible:

(from Opta) Liverpool have now made 96 lineup changes, which is by the far the most of any team this season, and in PL history after 25 games. The previous highest was 86 by Man Utd in both 2009-10 and 2013-14.

Starting XI changes after 25 games

1. Liverpool 96

2. Everton 74

3. Newcastle 71

5. Chelsea 64

8. Spurs 60

10. Man City 55

17. Man U 49

18. Arsenal 46

20. Burnley 22

(some stats from me)

Minutes played by most used players at clubs: big difference between Liverpool and rivals when it comes to individuals. Eg before this round of games, Salah had played 7 hours less football than De Bruyne, Firmino 6 hours less than Lukaku, Matip more than 14 hours less than Azpilicueta

TOP FOUR PLAYERS PER CLUB IN MINUTES ON THE PITCH, ALL COMPETITIONS, 2017-18 (before tomorrow's games)

LIVERPOOL

Firmino 2461

Salah 2435

Can 2243

Matip 2161

MAN CITY

Otamendi 2861

De Bruyne 2856

Fernandinho 2788

Walker 2695

MAN U

Lukaku 2720

Matic 2711

Valencia 2496

Smalling 2357

CHELSEA

Azpilicueta 2985

Alonso 2835

Kante 2528

Bakayoko 2430

SPURS

Vertonghen 2850

Dier 2749

Kane 2634

Alli 2428

Here's the full article

 

 

Liverpool face Spurs today with their manager convinced resting players is key to success

 

Drugs and alcohol did for Black Sabbath while Guns N’ Roses were torn apart by egos. That’s what can happen with heavy metallers — they burn out. Not Liverpool, or at least that is Jurgen Klopp’s plan. Manchester City are not the only club breaking records.

 

Klopp has made an extraordinary 96 changes to his starting XI in the Premier League, quite comfortably the most in history after 25 games, exceeding Manchester United’s 86 in 2009-10 and 2013-14. Tottenham, today’s opponents, have made 36 fewer alterations and Klopp’s opposite is Sean Dyche who, before yesterday, had made 72 less.

 

Yet overall, Spurs and Burnley have used almost the same number of different players (23 compared to 25) as Liverpool, so what we’re seeing from Klopp is not indecision but strategy; a rotation policy on an unprecedented scale. The idea is to keep oomph in the power chords and juice in the baseline, keep his “heavy metal football” heavy.

 

His thinking was formed a year ago. Liverpool blew up in 2016-17 over January and February when they won just two games in 12 and suffered 16 injuries. It was Klopp’s first full English campaign and he told those closest to him the relentlessness of the schedule was a shock.

 

With his sports science degree, Klopp, inset, started planning how to make future seasons different and the solution was a bigger group (summer signings Dominic Solanke, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Andrew Robertson were made for the squad as much as the first XI), a more restrained playing style (less pressing) in the early games — and the rotation, all this Klopping-and-changing of personnel.

 

Prior to this weekend, Mohamed Salah had played 421 fewer minutes in all competitions than Kevin De Bruyne. That’s seven hours’ less football. Roberto Firmino had played six hours less than Romelu Lukaku, Joel Matip 14 hours less than Cesar Azpilicueta, Emre Can approaching nine hours less than Eric Dier. And Salah, Firmino, Matip and Can are Liverpool’s most-used players.

 

“Rotation and a broad squad is the way forward,” Peter Krawietz, Klopp’s No 2, told Raphael Honigstein a year ago, for Honigstein’s excellent book, Klopp: Bring the Noise.

 

“The plan was always to have fresh legs on the pitch and to be fresh in this part of the season,” Klopp said on Friday. “This is the decisive part of the season and why you build the basis in the first part of the season, and get what you get in the second half. Of course we could have a few points more . . . but all good so far. We have the basis [for a strong finish] and we have to build on it.”

 

Rotation, from a sports science point of view, is about bringing athletes systematically to the point they can bear intense exercise loads. The whole point is to lay foundations and reap the benefits, which is why Klopp is talking about building “the basis” and “getting what you get” at the business end of the campaign. His German double-winning 2011-12 season is a template, where he rotated and finished so strong that Borussia Dortmund did not lose a single game from December 6 on.

 

But there won’t be any doubles for Liverpool this season, of course; nor trophies unless they shock the Champions League. Lame cup exits and some bad days against smaller teams have marred 2017-18. There has been inconsistency of performance and it is natural to wonder whether that links to inconsistency of selection.

 

Rafa Benitez did more than anybody to introduce the concept of rotation to England, through his tinkering at Liverpool in a different era, but “Rafa’s rotation” was different to Klopp’s. Two reasons. One, he managed players’ pitch-time less via blunt changes to the starting line-up and more via substitutions. According to sports scientist Simon Brundish, the median time of a Benitez substitution was 63 minutes whereas with Klopp it’s 75 minutes — Steven Gerrard was often seen traipsing off with that frown of his, midway through a second half, as Benitez sought to save his legs.

 

Two, and this is the bigger difference, Benitez did his rotating with midfielders and forwards but seldom his back four and never his goalkeeper. In contrast, the Klopping-and-changing of Loris Karius and Simon Mignolet and their manager’s constant shuffling of his defensive pack puzzles Liverpool fans — who were particularly baffled when Virgil Van Dijk, the £75m messiah brought to bring order at the back at last, was dropped at Huddersfield in midweek. Liverpool, though, produced a clean sheet and Klopp argues that a player who was not match fit when he arrived and whose training-time has been reduced by niggles needs to build up carefully. Klopp also suggested Liverpool’s defending is different to what Van Dijk may be used to.

 

A wag would wonder whether conceding 149 goals in 133 games since taking over is all part of Klopp’s original defensive approach — but what he means is his adoption of a high line and how gegenpressing involves risking team shape to win back the ball. Defenders must, at times, cover big spaces. “Fresh legs” are needed for that. However, it is hard to see Liverpool tightening up, until defensive (and goalkeeping) selection settles down.

 

Van Dijk is poised to return against Harry Kane & Co. Tottenham’s playing style is every bit as physically intense as Liverpool’s and Mauricio Pochettino has been through the journey Klopp is trying to complete, learning how to handle the domestic season. Pochettino’s teams used to peter out in spring but no longer, and Lucas Moura was a clever addition. Barely used in 2017-18 by Paris Saint-Germain, Moura will add to Tottenham’s freshness over the final weeks of the season, as will fit-again Erik Lamela.

 

Klopp will wonder whether to rotate Jordan Henderson, who after four weeks out played 108 minutes in three days against West Brom and Huddersfield. Load-tolerance varies in players, though, and some are marvels: Salah and Firmino both played an enormous amount of football in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and are doing so again.

 

Klopp compares Firmino to Kane. “If you see Harry Kane playing, he is all over the pitch, getting the ball deep. Of all the strikers we have in England, they are the most similar — they’re everywhere,” Klopp said. “You realise it the day after the game when you look at [Firmino’s] figures and see ‘Wow, what a number of high sprints and high distance runs’. Then when you look at him in training the next day it’s all good, he walks normal. On the second day of recovery he is fresh again. That’s what makes him so special. He is always ready.”

Edited February 4, 2018 by rednotdead

[Earl Hafler]

Haven’t most of our changes been in defence ?

[Conrad]

Haven’t most of our changes been in defence ?

Yes