Not taking risks

[baja the hut]

I feel frustrated. I know today we put in a clinical performance. But that January showed time and time again how the management of this club has missed opportunities to go for glory.

 

Examples - 

 

1. That January window of 13/14

 

2. Replacing Suarez, erm...

 

3. Failing to address a problem with Mane not being present in the January window

 

I know people would say it's easy being a manager from the couch, but we all saw these.

 

There's a fundamental lack of taking the bull by the horns in our club. We never seize the moment. 

 

It's FSG, and now it's Klopp, who, while being a great coach has not shown the planning and management of risk that makes a great manager.

 

We are where we are due to them, and I don't care what people say, this club's fanbase deserves better.

 

Oh and I don't care about the money aspect, we win the league, we make money. We win the Champions League, we make money, we win the FA cup we make money....

 

Success on the pitch breeds financial success and the lack of courage to take risks when the moment is right is what is wrong with this club right now.

[Nerik]

Elaborate on Klopp's inability to plan for and manage risk.

[baja the hut]

Elaborate on Klopp's inability to plan for and manage risk.

 

Sadio Mane was bought to stretch defences, with him in the side we are different as the more technical players are allowed more space in general. We have no alternatives to Mane in our team. Klopp mentioned that Mane's leaving for ACN was a blow and he would have to look for alternatives. It is very probable that Klopp had funds in the window, assuming this Klopp did not mitigate the risk of him leaving by buying/loaning a similar player. Nor did he alter our style to counter his absence. This, in my opinion led to a bleak set of results in January.

[Nerik]

Having funds available does not mean that the right player was available to be bought. Far from conclusive that lack of reinforcements was down to Klopp's inabilty. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by Nerik

[baja the hut]

Having funds available does not mean that the right player was available to be bought. Far from conclusive that lack of reinforcements was down to Klopp's inabilty. 

 

This reeks of perfectionism, there aren't always the 'right players' available doesn't mean that there aren't players available to do a role that will take you through a tough period.

And you didn't answer the lack of change in playing strategy that was made by Mane.

[Cam]

Elaborate on Klopp's inability to plan for and manage risk.

Did you have responsibility for job interviews?

[Hassony]

This reeks of perfectionism

Well duh, you should be happy that we have a perfectionist in charge of us, and he's already a great coach and a great manager, so you van f*** off with that s***e as well, no offence like

 

What has hurt us in the past is taking too much risks on signings, without doing proper homework on thier qualities and mentalities

 

Would spending 20m in January on someone like markovic or depay have helped us? Or would we have ended up with more expensive dead weight to shift off?

[Nerik]

This reeks of perfectionism, there aren't always the 'right players' available doesn't mean that there aren't players available to do a role that will take you through a tough period.

And you didn't answer the lack of change in playing strategy that was made by Mane.

 

There was not much movement of any players, let alone the "right" players. List the amount of players who moved to/from the top clubs in all European leagues and the number is pretty low. 

 

Our playing strategy was of course impacted by Mane's loss. Coupled with injuries to Coutinho, Henderson, Matip etc. along with the loss of form of a few others and the lack of depth in our squad was evident. 

 

Did you have responsibility for job interviews?

 

Tell me something about yourself.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Nerik

[baja the hut]

Well duh, you should be happy that we have a perfectionist in charge of us, and he's already a great coach and a great manager, so you van f*** off with that s**** as well, no offence like

 

What has hurt us in the past is taking too much risks on signings, without doing proper homework on thier qualities and mentalities

 

Would spending 20m in January on someone like markovic or depay have helped us? Or would we have ended up with more expensive dead weight to shift off?

No offence taken. I like him too. But I don't think you have to hurl abuse just because I criticised the chap.

 

And no, perfectionism isn't always good. And dont quote spending money on <insert player who supports your case> where I could potentially do the same.

There was not much movement of any players, let alone the "right" players. List the amount of players who moved to/from the top clubs in all European leagues and the number is pretty low.

 

Our playing strategy was of course impacted by Mane's loss. Coupled with injuries to Coutinho, Henderson, Matip etc. along with the loss of form of a few others and the lack of depth in our squad was evident.

 

 

Tell me something about yourself.

We coped with Mane's absence the worst, followed by Lallana, followed by Coutinho in my opinion.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

The squad isn't strong enough, and someone (not quite sure who) is to blame.

 

Hot take.

[baja the hut]

The squad isn't strong enough, and someone (not quite sure who) is to blame.

 

Hot take.

I'd say 70-30 Fsg-Klopp.

 

Hotter take.

 

Actually maybe 60-30-10, FSG-Ayre-Klopp

Edited February 11, 2017 by baja the hut

[usualsuspect]

Well duh, you should be happy that we have a perfectionist in charge of us, and he's already a great coach and a great manager, so you van f*** off with that s**** as well, no offence like

 

What has hurt us in the past is taking too much risks on signings, without doing proper homework on thier qualities and mentalities

 

Would spending 20m in January on someone like markovic or depay have helped us? Or would we have ended up with more expensive dead weight to shift off?

What's wrong with this lad? Can't make a point without insults.

[growler]

Thing is, you could argue the risk was taken to go into this season trusting this group of players and they let klopp down.

 

Klopp looked at the squad and felt between origi, Sturridge and others he can cover mane for 4-6 weeks. And they let him down. The keepers was a risk and they let him down.

 

May and June will be big in this regard. Will Klopp be trusted and will he do what needs to be done? He likes to get stuff done early and without Ayres he should have more influence too.

 

We are a conservative club - from owners to world wide fans.

[Jarg Armani]

It's not the manager, his job is to identify players to sign, nothing more, and then work with the ones he's got during the week so they win at the weekend.

 

He identified players, we got some of them but not enough. He's made the best of it and will look to build again in summer.

 

He is great at many aspects of his job. Very unfair to criticise him for things that don't fall under his remit, even if he encourages you to do so.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

jan is a weird window. Perhaps Klopp wanted a few players but we were quoted 50-75% more than they will cost in the summer. Maybe we were told to go and f***

 

I dunno.

[Jarg Armani]

The club has decided that the Jan window doesn't exist - as have a number of other clubs before anyone starts - so we may as well fall in line with this thinking and just ignore it.

 

Did city sign this Jesus lad in Jan? Great example of the boost it can give you if so.

 

Anyway it's gone so we should just mentally adjust to there only being 1 window a year and how vital this period between now and July 1st is, I expect our people in charge to do their duties and furnish the manager with everything he asks for this time. A lot will rest on where we finish of course.

[baja the hut]

It's not the manager, his job is to identify players to sign, nothing more, and then work with the ones he's got during the week so they win at the weekend.

 

He identified players, we got some of them but not enough. He's made the best of it and will look to build again in summer.

 

He is great at many aspects of his job. Very unfair to criticise him for things that don't fall under his remit, even if he encourages you to do so.

 

Didn't he get quoted as having final say. Also as having money to spend.

 

If we stopped because of money it is an issue. Also, you have no idea whether what we have criticised him for come under his remit or not.

[Jarg Armani]

Final say isn't any different to what I've described is it?

 

Instead of believing everything i read in the papers, I tend to look at what is actually happening, and join the dots to get my own conclusions. It helps make sense of the at times totally contradictory world of sport.

[baja the hut]

Final say isn't any different to what I've described is it?

 

Instead of believing everything i read in the papers, I tend to look at what is actually happening, and join the dots to get my own conclusions. It helps make sense of the at times totally contradictory world of sport.

 

How are you observing anything that's "actually happening", when whatever information that we get about the club is by default fed to us by the media?

 

How can you join the dots given the level of opacity surrounding the inner workings of the club? Unless you have some sort of inside track that I don't possess.

[Hightown Phil]

It's not the manager, his job is to identify players to sign, nothing more, and then work with the ones he's got during the week so they win at the weekend.

 

He identified players, we got some of them but not enough. He's made the best of it and will look to build again in summer.

 

He is great at many aspects of his job. Very unfair to criticise him for things that don't fall under his remit, even if he encourages you to do so.

I don't think it is his job to find players is it? I think he probably sets out a criteria of the style he wants and then people come back with lists.

 

If it's just him then it really shouldn't be if we're being honest. There just isn't enough time to do all that as well as effectively prepare and coach a side.

[Jarg Armani]

I don't think it is his job to find players is it? I think he probably sets out a criteria of the style he wants and then people come back with lists.

 

If it's just him then it really shouldn't be if we're being honest. There just isn't enough time to do all that as well as effectively prepare and coach a side.

My point was that he doesn't get to be the person doing the deals, upping the bid etc. I know he doesn't do all the spade work as well, he obvs can't be a scout as well as a coach.

How are you observing anything that's "actually happening", when whatever information that we get about the club is by default fed to us by the media?

 

How can you join the dots given the level of opacity surrounding the inner workings of the club? Unless you have some sort of inside track that I don't possess.

Players he picks to start basically. If he's over playing people it's because he doesn't rate their backup, which then follows that he would have replaced them if he could have.

[David Hodgson]

The squad isn't strong enough, and someone (not quite sure who) is to blame.

 

Hot take.

 

I think our perception now that the squad isn't strong enough is largely with benefit of hindsight. I don't think, when we were taking down all comers in the Autumn, that there was much lamenting the lack of squad depth. Especially given our lack of European competition. 

 

The first sign really was from Klopp himself after the Ings injury. He said he felt he needed another attacking player (a 'winger').

 

However, I'm going to give it the big one and say (having set up this straw man brilliantly) that I - and I alone - flagged in August that it was dangerous to be going into the season counting on the like of Origi, Sturridge and Ings.

 

Origi - because he's raw and prone to form lapses

Sturridge - because he's injury prone

Ings - because he had a major injury issue and is not nearly good enough

 

Having said all this, it feels as though we've been a bit unlucky with all three of these things actually manifesting themselves. All of this compounded by us being without 3 of our main attacking 4 for large swathes of a 2 month period. 

 

I'd love to see how Chelsea would've coped had they seen similar levels of absence with likes of Hazard, Costa and Pedro. Yes they have Willian to come in, but they don't trust Batshuyi. Is Chelsea's squad strong enough to have endured what we've endured (in terms of injury) unscathed ? I doubt it.

 

Would United have gone on the run they did with Zlatan or Mikhitaryan out ?

 

Truth is, if we could've had the versions of Origi, Sturridge and Emre Can that we enjoyed between Feb and May last year , then we'd be a lot better off points wise. I also think that a dip for our whole team was inevitable, but it was exacerbated by a number of things going against us at key moments. Marginally better luck and we might have won any of the 5 games we failed to win. Turn 2 of those back into wins and we're right in the title race.

 

I'm the first to say we should have just paid double for Pulisic or Brandt but there's no great likelihood that either would have arrived by Jan 10th (say) and pulled up any trees. And now, with f*** all games left, we don't actually need them. There was always more chance of Origi refinding his mojo than Pulisic working immediate wonders.

 

For me, the challenge this summer is very simple - find a clone for Sadio Mane. Pay whatever that takes.

[Conrad]

It was patently obvious in September the squad was not strong enough

[Tones]

It was patently obvious in September the squad was not strong enough

Yeah it's not hindsight. Many said it in August / September. a few on here said it. They were dismissed as being in a huff because we didn't sign anyone on transfer deadline day

[_00_deathscar]

Yeah it's not hindsight. Many said it in August / September. a few on here said it. They were dismissed as being in a huff because we didn't sign anyone on transfer deadline day

 

And repeat every transfer window.