Class

Swan Red · August 8, 2014

My claim is, as it’s no longer possible to identify class membership and self identification by class is unreliable, class has become largely redundant as a concept. This led to this response from matty which I’m taking as a starting point.

Maybe one for a separate thread.

I think class self-identification is only necessary if that class intends to do something as a class. I would say that it's harder to put people into classes by occupation, but simple by income/wealth. Society has changed considerably and manual/non-manual, etc don't work as identifiers anymore.

I agree with most of this and as no class seems intent on doing anything as a class it suggests that it is largely irrelevant in the minds of people. This is a case for its redundancy rather than against.

I don’t think a simple income or wealth distinction corresponds to class as we understand it but I do think it’s of utmost importance in focusing attention. But this is about rich and poor and various gradations of both this isn’t about class. We make distinctions on profession but these aren’t always reflective of the incomes of those professions.

The fact british politics requires coalitions of voters to be assembled to win elections has diminished the need to appeal directly to one class - hence New Labour, and this might be the main thing that keeps the Tories out next May. However, that the interests of what we might (or used to) call the working class are still relevant to debate is clear to me.

The question is whether we should call it the working class or not. Or consider these interests somehow working class interests. What makes a decent education system a working class interest? Or a decent health service? Our focus should be those least fortunate, at the expense of those most working though progressive rates of taxation. It seems that you referring to what we might or used to call the working class is again making the point, it may have been relevant to talk about working class interests but it isn’t now.

It is my belief that there aren’t a coherent set of interests we can consider working class, that the granularity evident in modern scales of social division aren’t suited to homogenising into the broad types of historical class division. Earlier notions of class were based on the relationship with the means of production, distribution and exchange. This is no longer appropriate.

I have a dog in this fight, some years ago Mrs Sutty made it clear she didn’t consider me working class and I argued strongly against, a couple of years ago a mate said similar and I strongly disagreed again. I don’t know that I would argue so strongly now, it is the case that my considering class redundant as a concept is a result of me no longer caring about whether I’m working class or not. If I am then me not needing to be the recipient of government tax cuts distinguishes me from those that do. If I’m not then how is my current security reliant on the two of us staying in work.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Swan Red

Snookie · August 8, 2014

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