To stop leaking so many goals

[downunder]

There is no doubt we need to strengthen the defensive side of the game, Johnson has been poor most the season and we haven't had a settled CB partnership.

But I think the system is also what that BR needs to focus on, yes we scored loads but can we tweak it to still be as attacking but ensure we have more cover when we are on the back foot?

Wholesale personnel changes isn't the answer IMO.

Edited May 12, 2014 by downunder

[Cheesecake]

Coates, Johnson, Kelly, Cisshoko, Toure - all unlikely to be here next season.

Flanno, Wisdom, Ilori all unlikely to be more than bit part players with Flanno the most likely to get games.

 

Enrique, unfit for most of the season, passable as cover for LB

 

Agger, Sakho, many injuries and Skrtel.

 

New LB, RB and CB required, all preferably with blistering pace to enable us to play that high line but should all be defenders first who can bring it to the halfway line and support the attack rather than being the ones to get to the byline 10 times a game.

Edited May 12, 2014 by DPD1973

[mally]

Combination of both I think. Evolve the system to not have quite as many players piling forward and leave ourselves so open at the back. Evolve the playing staff too. A boss CB who can organise and lead, perhaps another who is quick, Ilori?

 

Sell Johnson.

[RBM]

It's not just as simple as changing the defensive players we have, although that is part of it.

[Dominus Maximus]

There's no doubt that the task of defending is more difficult at Liverpool, where Brendan wants his FB's to play like wingers, than it is at Chelsea where you will have protection from the FB's and half the midfield.

 

So yes, it is a system thing.

 

That said.

 

The players we have are not quick and intelligent enough to play with the aforementioned added difficulty, so yes, it is a personnel thing.

 

Martin Skrtel is a great example. He's the ultimate physical enforcer but lacks the composure required to play Brendans football.

 

He'll thrive for a team like Chelsea but he'll always mess up for us.

[yellow jumper]

we played 4 centre halves across the back line at one game at anfield and lost 0-1. in fact generally, when we don't get our full backs forward to great effect our attacking game tends to suffer.

 

think the real key to our defensive work is the press in front, when that works we're generally fine. and i think it's also why when we're ahead in games our physical effort levels can drop slightly and we can end up conceding. two areas to look at: squad depth obviously, but i also think specifically in the areas where legs will be an issue, and learning to take sting out of games a bit better with the ball, which might also be down to personnel.

Edited May 12, 2014 by yellow jumper

[Malcolm X]

There is no doubt we need to strengthen the defensive side of the game, Johnson has been poor most the season and we haven't had a settled CB partnership.

But I think the system is also what that BR needs to focus on, yes we scored loads but can we tweak it to still be as attacking but ensure we have more cover when we are on the back foot?

Wholesale personnel changes isn't the answer IMO.

 

In the vast majority of cases, it has clearly been the personnel and their inability to defend or get in the right position or individual mistakes rather than the system. Off the top of my head, below is a summary of the goals we leaked:

 

- City's 2nd goal at Etihad - Mig's mistake and Skrtel being out of position

- WBA's equaliser at the Hawthorns - Toure's suicidal pass

- Crystal Palace - 2 of the 3 goals were due to the defenders not knowing where they should be (mainly Johnson)

- Chelsea's first goal at Anfield - Gerrard slips but the centerbacks are way apart from each other. They should have been much closer which would have given one of them a chance to get tight on Ba.

- Chelsea's second goal at Stamford Bridge - Mig should save that.

- Norwich's two goals - down to defensive mistakes

- Fulham's 2 goals - down to defensive mistakes. Own goal and then shocking defending by Skrtel.

- Stoke - at least 2 goals could have been avoided. Charlie Adams' goal where we failed to close him down and Walters' goal where we failed to clear the ball in our area.

 

We have conceded 12 goals from either individual errors or poor play from our defence. Take out the City, WBA, CP and Chelsea mistakes (x2) and we are 7 points better off an league champions. The above has nothing to do with the system we play as we never really go gung ho. It is down to individuals not doing the job. The defence needs an overhaul and the first one out the door should be Johnson. You can make a case for Skrtel. Yes he scores goals but he equally lets in just as much if not more at the other end. Sakho is walking a tight rope.

[cymrococh]

We don't want to change this system too much though.

 

Heaven forbid we stop absolutely marmalising sides.

[Lark]

I like the system but the personnel aren't suited for it.

 

A keeper will be required to sweep up and be part of playing the ball out. Don't think it's mingolets game, he's a great shot stopper, but he doesn't like to venture so far off his line and I can't help feel nervous when he has the ball at his feet.

 

You'd think the system would be perfect for Johnson as he's far better attacking than defending but he's been poor this season, maybe he's not been 100 per cent fit, maybe his age is catching up with him, maybe if we rested him when fit, he'd be sharper the next time he played.

 

You think the formation would suit agger another ball playing centre half but he's been broken again this season.

 

Skrtel and sakho cut from the same cloth when it comes to defending, not really intelligent defenders who are aware of what's going on around them and too often get involved in physical battles, too often lose, too often switch to 'panic' mode when calm heads required. Even yesterday's own goal is a classic example of skrtel being completely unaware of agger being behind him and a better position to see the ball go past him and out for a throw. Calm heads fully aware of their role and where the other players on the pitch are a must in this system.

 

Toure too old, kelly too injured, coates too injured, wisdom too young, ilori too young.

 

Enrique, likes to get forward, probably suit the system but thick like johnson, positionally unaware, injured all season and would probably suffer like Johnson playing 90 mins week in and week out.

 

For all the criticism the system and the personnel got us to 2nd in the table, ahead of Chelsea, the best defence in the country. Would love to see us improve on personnel but can't imagine wholesale changes being made in one summer.

[Ant]

I like the system but the personnel aren't suited for it.

 

A keeper will be required to sweep up and be part of playing the ball out. Don't think it's mingolets game, he's a great shot stopper, but he doesn't like to venture so far off his line and I can't help feel nervous when he has the ball at his feet.

 

You'd think the system would be perfect for Johnson as he's far better attacking than defending but he's been poor this season, maybe he's not been 100 per cent fit, maybe his age is catching up with him, maybe if we rested him when fit, he'd be sharper the next time he played.

 

You think the formation would suit agger another ball playing centre half but he's been broken again this season.

 

Skrtel and sakho cut from the same cloth when it comes to defending, not really intelligent defenders who are aware of what's going on around them and too often get involved in physical battles, too often lose, too often switch to 'panic' mode when calm heads required. Even yesterday's own goal is a classic example of skrtel being completely unaware of agger being behind him and a better position to see the ball go past him and out for a throw. Calm heads fully aware of their role and where the other players on the pitch are a must in this system.

 

Toure too old, kelly too injured, coates too injured, wisdom too young, ilori too young.

 

Enrique, likes to get forward, probably suit the system but thick like johnson, positionally unaware, injured all season and would probably suffer like Johnson playing 90 mins week in and week out.

 

For all the criticism the system and the personnel got us to 2nd in the table, ahead of Chelsea, the best defence in the country. Would love to see us improve on personnel but can't imagine wholesale changes being made in one summer.

 

Personally I think he will have a part to play next season.

[downunder]

1399880878[/url]' post='3638140']

In the vast majority of cases, it has clearly been the personnel and their inability to defend or get in the right position or individual mistakes rather than the system. Off the top of my head, below is a summary of the goals we leaked:

 

- City's 2nd goal at Etihad - Mig's mistake and Skrtel being out of position

- WBA's equaliser at the Hawthorns - Toure's suicidal pass

- Crystal Palace - 2 of the 3 goals were due to the defenders not knowing where they should be (mainly Johnson)

- Chelsea's first goal at Anfield - Gerrard slips but the centerbacks are way apart from each other. They should have been much closer which would have given one of them a chance to get tight on Ba.

- Chelsea's second goal at Stamford Bridge - Mig should save that.

- Norwich's two goals - down to defensive mistakes

- Fulham's 2 goals - down to defensive mistakes. Own goal and then shocking defending by Skrtel.

- Stoke - at least 2 goals could have been avoided. Charlie Adams' goal where we failed to close him down and Walters' goal where we failed to clear the ball in our area.

 

We have conceded 12 goals from either individual errors or poor play from our defence. Take out the City, WBA, CP and Chelsea mistakes (x2) and we are 7 points better off an league champions. The above has nothing to do with the system we play as we never really go gung ho. It is down to individuals not doing the job. The defence needs an overhaul and the first one out the door should be Johnson. You can make a case for Skrtel. Yes he scores goals but he equally lets in just as much if not more at the other end. Sakho is walking a tight rope.

 

If we change too many at once we won't be better off.

[Bigal]

I think we should play 0-2-8.

 

make them worry about our 8 man attack

[D.Boon]

1. Tell Skrtel that he either gets his foot to a ball or leaves it the f*** alone.

 

I'll think of more later.

[surf]

keep sakho & flanagan, sell the rest

[mrjunk]

I think we need to look at something new for out defense. If we're intent on using a quarterback in our DM view, which is incredibly effective, we need to look at a super mobile defender for tracking down the escapees from our pressing efforts.

 

We need to do something like Madrid did with Mascherano and convert a highly paced destroyer into the CM role for the level of cover we need.

[RP]

We need to do something like Madrid did with Mascherano and convert a highly paced destroyer into the CM role for the level of cover we need.

 

 

You've done me there.

[Earl Hafler]

we played 4 centre halves across the back line at one game at anfield and lost 0-1. in fact generally, when we don't get our full backs forward to great effect our attacking game tends to suffer.

 

 

We had Lucas, Moses and Aspas starting. Think that had something to do with it.

 

Johnson hasn't been getting forward to great effect ( passing, crossing etc ) but he has been forcing the opposition left back to defend, combines with Suarez or Sturridge which gives the left sided centre half a dilemma.

 

That's fine...but he doesn't get back when he should. He doesn't tackle as often as he should and seems to think that a crossed ball hitting his leg will result in injury. There are fullbacks out there who can connect with the forwards in the final third but also defend and be more aware of the potential dangers when the ball is on the opposite side of the pitch. Many times we've lost possession there, the opposition switches the play and we have one defender covering one side of our half.

 

Also - who would you rather have crossing or threading a through ball - Gerrard or Johnson ? A more stable right back should allow Gerrard more forays forward ( and that doesn't mean necessarily getting into the box but in a position to split open defences which won't be as exposed as this season - more teams will defend in numbers.

 

Skrtel / Johnson is a problem. I'm surprised we haven't switched Johnson and Flanno recently

[RBM]

I think we need to look at something new for out defense. If we're intent on using a quarterback in our DM view, which is incredibly effective, we need to look at a super mobile defender for tracking down the escapees from our pressing efforts.

 

We need to do something like Madrid did with Mascherano and convert a highly paced destroyer into the CM role for the level of cover we need.

 

When did this happen?

[sangria]

You think the formation would suit agger another ball playing centre half but he's been broken again this season.

 

Not more so than our other CBs barring Skrtel. Agger is frequently criticised for being injury prone, but he, Toure and Sakho have all started around 15 games this season (Toure 14, Agger 15, Sakho 16).

[Swan Red]

Not more so than our other CBs barring Skrtel. Agger is frequently criticised for being injury prone, but he, Toure and Sakho have all started around 15 games this season (Toure 14, Agger 15, Sakho 16).

 

Given Skrtel was almost ever present that Toure played as much seems to indicate a problem with both Agger's and Sakho's availability

[RedHarvest]

As hard as it is we need to replace Carra, a leader and organiser to marshall the defence, I was hoping Sakho would be that player, doesn't seem like it just now. The defensive lapses have been collective imo and thats down to confidence, organization and continuity. One signing would do it but it has to be absolutely the right man, a leader

[Chewie]

So, the team sheet yesterday - was that allowing Agger to play one last time at Anfield given his service for us?

[RP]

So, the team sheet yesterday - was that allowing Agger to play one last time at Anfield given his service for us?

 

 

I think it was Brendan putting out the best eleven players to beat Newcastle United.

 

I don't believe that sentimentality came into the thinking for one second.

[Chewie]

I think it was Brendan putting out the best eleven players to beat Newcastle United.

 

I don't believe that sentimentality came into the thinking for one second.

 

yeah, that seems fair enough to me. Kinda worrying though given the funds put into a new CH, the short term Kolo signing and we get to the end of the season with last year's defensive pairing considered the strongest option...

[RP]

yeah, that seems fair enough to me. Kinda worrying though given the funds put into a new CH, the short term Kolo signing and we get to the end of the season with last year's defensive pairing considered the strongest option...

 

 

I get that. I guess it's a little disappointing that Sakho hasn't come in and grabbed the opportunity with both hands, but he's young, new League/country/language etc., so I don't think it's right to be too hard on him. I think he'll be fine. Illori has hopefully benefitted from a season out on loan, he was clearly never one for this season anyway.

 

 

I'd be disappointed if we get to this time next year and we still think Agger and Skrtel is our strongest pairing. Something will have gone horribly wrong if that's the case.