Dominate possession

[charlie clown]

Rodgers often talks about dominating posession, and I had assumed that he meant by that that you made sure you had more posession, more of the ball. The last few games I've wondered whether that is what he really means. I wonder kow whether he means that, even if the opposition have the ball, you should still domionate them: hunt them down, bully them, press them, harry them. I think this makes more sense of what he means by dominating posession. Be scary with the ball. Be scarier without it. Just frighten the opposition, no matter who has the ball.

[épieur]

Don't think it's that esoteric. I think he has simply changed his mind on the needs of dominating possession. Probably around a year ago.

 

A few months later, Bayern and Dortmund showed how football has evolved past this maxim when they trounced Barca and Real. Rodgers has simply moved with the curve of modern football.

[Rimbeux]

Don't think it's that esoteric. I think he has simply changed his mind on the needs of dominating possession. Probably around a year ago.

 

A few months later, Bayern and Dortmund showed how football has evolved past this maxim when they trounced Barca and Real. Rodgers has simply moved with the curve of modern football.

 

 

That's exactly it, he used to seem in thrall of the team with most possession winning most of the time stat, no longer.

[RP]

The team that has the most shots on target is a better indicator of who wins a football match*.

 

 

 

 

* I have no idea if this is true or not. But I choose to believe it.

[David Hodgson]

I think he's coming to the correct conclusion that possession stats are not terribly meaningful, if you're a team that can put games to bed quickly. I remember that famous 5-0 V Forest in 88. They had a lot of the ball.

 

If you really sting half way decent teams they're not going to let you you just olé it about all afternoon. They get hurt and want to at least get on the ball. Certainly in our league. Then in turn, if you're ahead and can really do damage to them on the counter, you're going to sit deeper and invite them on once you've got a lead.

 

You can still be the dominant team without the majority of possession. It's the quality of the possession that's everything.

[The_Adder]

I think the Bayern / Dortmund comment is a great shout.

 

That plus the players we have in Coutinho, Sturridge and Sterling particularly, mean we can go from the back to front with great accuracy and pace.

 

Then we also have Suarez added into this meaning we have a brilliant mix of brilliant and fast counter attacking and basically sheer genius.

 

I like it.

[Maldini]

I think the players at his disposal have changed his philosophy. A patient possession based game doesn't really suit any of our main men. We're almost like a basketball team the way we fast-break these days.

[Nate.]

Possession of the ball is one thing, the correct use of it is another altogether.

 

We dominated games before without ever making the most of it. We are now see the progression of that. In fact merging the two would be perfect.

[£440,000]

We had less possession than the opposition in both the Everton and Arsenal matches, yet we still seemed to dominate them. Weird.

[smithdown]

I think the players at his disposal have changed his philosophy. A patient possession based game doesn't really suit any of our main men. We're almost like a basketball team the way we fast-break these days.

 

 

aye, makes no sense to knock it about when those two lead the line

 

turn theirs around is more worthwhile than playing about in front of them

[Romario]

I think our forward line is as good as anything on the planet while our midfield and defence are not world class.

Simple solution is get it to our forwards as much as possible.

I'm loving it.

[Tosh]

The pressing on Saturday reminded me of the "hunting in packs" that we used to do in European games under Rafa. Opposition given no time and no angle to get rid of the ball, other than backwards

[schmuckdonald]

Think he's just realised he can't do it with this team. He was pretty elaborate about talking resting on the ball etc.

[charlie clown]

We had less possession than the opposition in both the Everton and Arsenal matches, yet we still seemed to dominate them. Weird.

 

That's what I'm getting at - and although I think what Epieur (and others) posted about him changing his position on it over the last year is true, he still talks about it, a lot. So I'm pretty sure that his view of what dominaitng posession actually means has evolved. I think he's in a position now where he thinks you can dominate with not much posession by being quicker and more effective with the ball, and you can dominate the opposition's possession when they have it by making them toothless.

Edited February 10, 2014 by charlie clown

[épieur]

I think the players at his disposal have changed his philosophy. A patient possession based game doesn't really suit any of our main men. We're almost like a basketball team the way we fast-break these days.

 

The way we broke for Sturridge's miss was blistering. Disposses, a quick ball through the centre, first time square and Sturridge is free on goal.

 

No defence can live with counter attack at that kind of speed.

[Dan]

Tony B has commented on it today:

 

 

Relaxing his commitment to ‘death by football’

 

That may seem strange after Liverpool’s recent demolition jobs on Arsenal and Everton, but when Rodgers talked of inflicting “death by football” his vision was for it to be caused by “relentless possession.” Everton and Arsenal were both on the receiving end of heavy defeats but they also had more of the ball. They were not passed into submission, they were brutally ripped apart by counter attacking football built on the pace, movement and ruthlessness of Luis Suarez, Raheem Sterling and Daniel Sturridge, an attacking trident that Rodgers believes is at least the equal of any other in the Premier League.

 

 

Three of the nine goals Liverpool have scored in their last two home fixtures have come from the ball being won and released early. Defence is being turned into attack in the blink of an eye; there is no passing for the sake of it. Rodgers has recognised the strengths of the players and has developed a strategy to make them as effective as they possibly can be. His development as a manager is mirrored by the progress that has been made by his team. Liverpool can play possession football but they are better suited to allowing opponents to have the ball, pressing them remorselessly and then blitzing them.

 

The change in emphasis from “death by football” to conquest by counter was reflected in the aftermath of the Merseyside derby when Rodgers evoked memories of a vintage piece of John Motson commentary about Liverpool being “at their most dangerous when they don’t have the ball.”

 

Rodgers said: “I remember watching Bayern Munich against Barcelona last year and it was 9-0 on aggregate over the two legs. Barcelona dominated possession as you’d expect but everyone could see over the course of the two games the team with the most dangerous possession was Bayern.

 

“When you look at the stats of the modern game I’m big on controlling domination of the ball, but against Everton we were able to dominate without the ball. Tactically, where we are compared to when I arrived 18months ago, it is very, very pleasing.”

 

 

 

[stressederic]

I'd be interested in; a) where the possession is, and b) when. I reckon the possession stats for the first 20 minutes against Arsenal and the period where we took Everton apart are the key ones rather than the rest of the game where we're just having a break and the opposition are f***ing terrified of giving the ball away and just want to go home.

[johngibo YPC]

We've decided possession is wool

[The_Adder]

Barcelona are so passe, it is all about the Munich now

[Maldini]

This is really good

 

Talking Tactics: How Rodgers Masterminded Liverpool’s Demolition Of Arsenal

[rednotdead]

Tony B has commented on it today:

 

 

 

 

 

 

A commenter on that piece makes a good point that this hyper-aggressive hunt and harry and strike tactic has not worked against teams who press us back and don't defend with a high line. Will be interesting to see how we cope should Fulham counter rope-a-dope us - both teams playing the ball back to each other so that they can reclaim possession higher up the pitch?

[Falconhoof]

We've decided possession is wool

 

[David Hodgson]

Think he's just realised he can't do it with this team. He was pretty elaborate about talking resting on the ball etc.

 

What's interesting is the degree to which he's adapting to working with what he's got as opposed to the degree to which 'what he's got' have educated him.

 

He inherited footballers in Gerrard and Suarez who are hungry to win football matches. Now ! He bought players in Sturridge and Coutinho who crave end product as their first thought. If you truly want an aggressive pressing team then you inherently have a side that wants to strike early (in the move). You can't fight like a demon to get on the ball and then want to knock it sideways.

 

I hope and think he'll come to see that the dream balance is a team that is impatient to win, but can regroup and bide its time if the break through doesn't happen on cue. It's the 'Liverpool way' I grew up with.

[Earl Hafler]

I think he's coming to the correct conclusion that possession stats are not terribly meaningful, if you're a team that can put games to bed quickly. I remember that famous 5-0 V Forest in 88. They had a lot of the ball.

 

If you really sting half way decent teams they're not going to let you you just olé it about all afternoon. They get hurt and want to at least get on the ball. Certainly in our league. Then in turn, if you're ahead and can really do damage to them on the counter, you're going to sit deeper and invite them on once you've got a lead.

 

You can still be the dominant team without the majority of possession. It's the quality of the possession that's everything.

 

The 5-0 in full

 

Yeah, i think you can dominate the game without having the greater % possession. We smashed four past Arsenal and then controlled the game for a period but Sagna spent over 60% of his time on the pitch in our half, Monreal almost 60% - insane when you consider how we performed against Everton.

Arsenal had more of the ball. We owned them though.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Earl Hafler

[Raybouldsrightpeg]

1392033117[/url]' post='3581071']

Possession of the ball is one thing, the correct use of it is another altogether.

 

We dominated games before without ever making the most of it. We are now see the progression of that. In fact merging the two would be perfect.

 

It also has to do with where you possess the ball... getting the ball into the attacking half quicker (some would call this counter attacking but it's just a faster buildup) gets the ball to our danger players near the goal = more chances/goals. Why dick around with the ball in the back when you've got so much talent up top?