Ant Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) I put it to you that regardless of our lack of squad depth or not, no side in the Premier League would have won two games on the trot away from home v City and Chelsea. City unbeaten at home in 2013, Chelsea unbeaten at home under Mourinho, it's as difficult as it's going to get, and I had this discussion before with some guys. If we had won those games it would have been massive, and the fact that we've lost them both changes very little for me. It's well documented we only have United away out of the so called top teams, which is a massive advantage for us. 6 points off top, regardless of how close it is at the top. I'm still thinking we can challenge for the league, we need signings in January no doubt, but we have a very healthy fixture list from now until May, with no European Distractions, for us not to finish fourth would be a travesty considering the fact I think we can easily challenge for the league. The past two games change nothing, it highlights our lack of squad depth, but it's never going to be this hard on paper for the rest of the season, I'd argue on our turf we'd have come away with points, and I think we will when we face them later on in the season. I'm not worried, we're exceeding our initial expectations, but they should be greater given what has been a remarkable season. Onwards and upwards Edited December 30, 2013 by Aunty-N.W.A
David Hodgson Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 10:37, Aunty-N.W.A said: I put it to you that regardless of our lack of squad depth or not, no side in the Premier League would have won two games on the trot away from home v City and Chelsea. City unbeaten at home in 2013, Chelsea unbeaten at home under Mourinho, it's as difficult as it's going to get, and I had this discussion before with some guys. If we had won those games it would have been massive, and the fact that we've lost them both changes very little for me. It's well documented we only have United away out of the so called top teams, which is a massive advantage for us. 6 points off top, regardless of how close it is at the top. I'm still thinking we can challenge for the league, we need signings in January no doubt, but we have a very healthy fixture list from now until May, with no European Distractions, for us not to finish fourth would be a travesty considering the fact I think we can easily challenge for the league. The past two games change nothing, it highlights our lack of squad depth, but it's never going to be this hard, I'd argue on our turf we'd have come away with points, and I think we will when we face them later on in the season. Onwards and upwards. Its a fair a point Ant. The yield of any other side in the prem from those two games (based on the evidence of this season) would've been between 0 and 1 point.
Case Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 What it changes can't be measured. It changes the mood, confidence, belief of the players. Losing two games off the trot might get inside the heads of some. Might. Maybe. This is where the coaching staff will earn their corn. The old Ronnie Moran adage of 'Right lads, take yet medals from a bucket and f*** off. preparation for next season starts now', holds partly true. We've no medals, sure, but we have made progress. Brendan needs to get inside their heads and tell them to start again this Wednesday, then see where it takes us.
Cunny Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 We have got to start taking points away from home from other rivals for top 4.If we beat them all at Anfield then great but what if we get draws?We are leaving ourselves no margin for error in the home games against the top 7 teams.
Ronnie#5 Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:00, Cunny said: We have got to start taking points away from home from other rivals for top 4.If we beat them all at Anfield then great but what if we get draws?We are leaving ourselves no margin for error in the home games against the top 7 teams.It's been said before but Utd won the league in 08/09 with the worst record of the top 4 in games against the top 4.
Guy_Incognito Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 If we ultimately don't make it, it's the lines of Hull and Southampton that will have cost us. Losing away against likely top 4 teams is well manageable over a season. Given how tight it is at the top, I'm still confident. Every week seems to have 2 challengers passing each other and someone therefore losing points. It just happens to have been us these last 2 games. There's a lot more stories to be written before May. At stages it's been Arsenal, Man U, even City for a bit. Now it's us. It'll be someone else soon
Rory Fitzgerald Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Losing 2-1 was always within the realms of possibilities at those venues. What makes it feel worse is that they were back to back defeats, 3 days between them and dropping from 1st to 5th. The important sentence is the 1st, the 2nd sentence is just some rawness being experienced. Once we return to what we are then we will do OK and that's beating Hull at home and getting 3pts at Stoke. My new worry is the squad - Allen, Enrique, Sakho, Gerrard, Sturridge. Hopefully this is the low point for injuries.
DJS Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 One thing it certainly doesnt change is our points tally... Badum-tush!
downunder Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 smithdown said: 1388402264[/url]' post='3551768']Doesn't help like Two tiring games with a thin squad hasn't helped either. I am worried the players won't be able to get the energy required for Hull.
realtarragona Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:00, Cunny said: We have got to start taking points away from home from other rivals for top 4. Like Spurs and Everton, for example?
Cunny Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:02, Ronnie#5 said: It's been said before but Utd won the league in 08/09 with the worst record of the top 4 in games against the top 4. Yes but this is a strange season with 7 teams all really close. Past season's point tallys, form etc... has little bearing on what it will take this season.
DJS Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:29, Cunny said: Yes but this is a strange season with 7 teams all really close. Past season's point tallys, form etc... has little bearing on what it will take this season. Does that mean that my notion of 75 points seeing us safe is flawed then?
Cunny Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:24, realtarragona said: Like Spurs and Everton, for example? Yes all well and good but see previous point.7 teams all really close - we have picked up 5 points out of 15 away from home to those teams.It's going to have to be more than that this season.I know we have them all to come at home but do you really think we will take 18 out of 18 at home? Some margin for error at home would be nice.
Case Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 What we don't know with any certainty is 'What is our away form really like?' - It's been skewed by playing 6 of the top 8 away in the first half. But we lost at Hull and were awful at Swansea. If we fall outside the top 4/5 it'll be because Brendan hasn't sorted out our away form against the likes of Palace, West Brom, etc... and to be honest, this makes me nervous.
realtarragona Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:32, Cunny said: Yes all well and good but see previous point.7 teams all really close - we have picked up 5 points out of 15 away from home to those teams.It's going to have to be more than that this season.I know we have them all to come at home but do you really think we will take 18 out of 18 at home? Some margin for error at home would be nice. Well, you said "We have got to start taking points away from home from other rivals for top 4" however we've only got one more of these games left this season and yet here we are, 1 point from being in the top 4. We've also beaten Man Utd if you want to include the home fixtures against these other top 7 sides as well.
smithdown Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 11:35, Case said: What we don't know with any certainty is 'What is our away form really like?' - It's been skewed by playing 6 of the top 8 away in the first half. But we lost at Hull and were awful at Swansea. If we fall outside the top 4/5 it'll be because Brendan hasn't sorted out our away form against the likes of Palace, West Brom, etc... and to be honest, this makes me nervous. This is it, boy. Spurs away we got the lad on the ball and it was happy days. Other aways, not so much of it. Games against the baddies away not so much either, so it is now all about the tactical challenge. He needs Sturridge and AN Other, cos we haven't got anything at all right now. Reckon it can be done though. Still not going to get a much better chance than this. Think Maradona at Napoli and you can't wait for the next game again.
Earl Hafler Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 No, it doesn't really and someone who hadn't watched either game could look at the results and conclude that, as expected, they were tough games decided by a single goal.But we're still starting Johnson, Skrtel's still making juvenile mistakes, the midfielders looked tired during the second half and the manager's influence during a game is still questionable. The Smith substitution was pathetic. Alberto's a good player, had a hand in a goal a few days ago and more importantly can link the midfield with Suarez. Coutinho's not in form so i'm not sure what we gained by slightly altering his position
Duncan Disorderly Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 We'll do ok, if not really push for the title. I think Brendan can smell the blood. Six points between us and Arsenal is nothing half way through the season. It's the manc scum only two behind us which really pisses me off.
épieur Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Win at Hull and we're back in the groove. Away against the best home sides in the league was never going to be games our season hinched on. It looks bad in the short term but that is where appearances can be deceiving. People are over reacting because they smelled a pole position for the title but the truth is that was just not justifiable. Our season is still very much on course for our target - and frankly, if we do reach top four Rodgers will have exceeded reasonable expectations.
realtarragona Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) We're averaging a point a game in aways against the top 8. For comparison sake: Newcastle 6 points (4 games)Liverpool 5 points (5 games)Everton 4 points (3 games)Chelsea 3 points (4 games)Arsenal 3 points (3 games)Man U 1 point (3 games)Spurs 1 point (3 games)Man City 0 points (1 game) Edited December 30, 2013 by realtarragona
marty Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 We have to beat Hull for it not to matter...easier said then done though
Bootle Buck Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) I think the two main issues that came out of those two games is the fact that Suarez was kept relatively quiet after looking almost unstoppable and our midfield didn't quite look anywhere near as dominant as it had done leading up to that game. Hopefully we can flat track bully Hull on Wednesday and the confidence levels return. I think it has to be somewhat a letdown to the players when they had a chance to make a real statement came out of those two games with nothing to show for it. Edited December 30, 2013 by Bootle Buck
Rory Fitzgerald Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 I think most of us managed our expectations that we could be beaten at Arsenal, City, Chelsea and even Spurs. Whilst it never works this way, there is not another game on the schedule where we would think that. I think most of us would be looking to get something at Utd and will have learnt lessons from 2 defeats by Southampton. After that, when the top teams come to Anfield, unless there is a rake of injuries, our minimum expectations would be a draw. As such, thats the basis on which I am forming my opinion - whilst the last few days were tough - if we get back to what we are then we are beating Hull and can hopefully take 3 points away from Stoke.
Ant Posted December 30, 2013 Author Posted December 30, 2013 On 30/12/2013 at 12:40, marty said: We have to beat Hull for it not to matter...easier said then done though Thats a fair point.
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