Midfield balance

[The_Adder]

We have been crying out for more goals from our midfield from a couple of seasons now, most teams are and these can be very hard to come by.

 

The kind of midfield players who can score goals as well as carry out other midfield duties such as defensively and keeping the ball moving etc are a rarity. Mkhtikaryan can do this and that is no doubt why we had him as our rumoured number one target.

 

The best two examples in recent years of these players are Frank Lampard and our very own Stevie, who was incredible there when played behind Torres. From his comments, he has always seen himself as a CM, one that plays behinds this position and who is involved more in the overall play and this is the role he played throughout last season, even when both Allen and Sahin were in the team. I think this left us unbalanced.

 

In a 4-3-3 systems, which is Rodger's favoured, at balance midfield has a DM who hold his position (Lucas for us), a CM who links the play from back to front, defends, supports the attack when the chance comes and generally keeps the ball for the team (Joe Allen fits this description, as does Henderson) and then a more advanced midfielder, one who's role it is to add more to our attack, score goals, but one who can also help out defensively. To me that is exactly what Steven Gerrard can provide.

 

There has been concerns over whether he can do this anymore in getting that little bit older, you could argue that the CM position requires even more running.

 

From looking at the game yesterday, it looks like Rodgers has now gone for this set up and pushed Gerrard further forward, maybe he has had a year with us, got his confidence and sat Stevie down and said that for the balance and good of the team, we need him playing this role, I can only guess, but if this is the midfield we are going into the new season with then it is the most balanced midfield we will have had since Rodgers has come in. Not only that, but it can give us that missing attacking threat from our midfield (see our attempts to get in Sigursson and Dempsey, and later Mkhtikaryan).

 

Lucas - Allen

 

Gerrard

 

We have had this player all along, but we haven't used him there, I really hope he stays in that role as he is perfect for it and I reckon we'll be better off, even without signing anyone there, just by making this switch of Gerrard's position.

 

It is something to get excited about despite the lack of attacking signings and could make a massive difference going into the new season.

[honourablegeorge]

Not sure Lucas & Allen will work - although we'll see now Allen is properly fit.

[The_Adder]

Not sure Lucas & Allen will work - although we'll see now Allen is properly fit.

 

Allen was bought for that role for Brendan's possession based plan, he didn't really play there last season and if he has now moved Gerrard up to where he is most effective, I think that puts Allen in his most effective position too.

Edited July 29, 2013 by The_Adder

[surf]

Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas = goals from 2 out of 3.

[Mikael Akerfeldt]

I like this positivity. I like Stevie in this position. Therefore I like this post.

[Earl Hafler]

Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas = goals from 2 out of 3.

 

Yeah. For me it's Lucas holding, Henderson pressing, Gerrard creating and scoring.

 

I concur with much of your post, Adder. In fact i could have written it last season. An ideal signing this summer would have been someone like Coutinho but for the right. If Suarez stays there's the chance for a lop sided 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 when Henderson covers the right as he did the left at times last season. If you have the legs in midfield you don't leave the fullbacks exposed. Suarez and Coutinho both press and harry, working to get the ball back.

 

I think progress would be rumours of Downing being sold in January because he's not getting games in a World Cup season.

[Red Yoda]

In our squad we have four players who compete for the wo positions in front of the back four , Gerrard , Lucas , Henderson & Allen .

 

I would love to see us bringing in another player to compliment Lucas , Henderson & Allen thus allowing us to push Gerrard up as the more attacking midfielder .

 

Suarez , Coutinho & Gerrard behind Sturridge has goals galore and is incredibly creative .

 

I just don't see any kind of hints that Gerrard is going to be moved into that kind of a role again :-(

[The_Adder]

I agree on Henderson, it is him or Allen for the role alongside Lucas, I have a sneaky feeling Allen will come into his own this season there and I think he'll get the first opportunity to do so out of those two.

 

Gerrard, Coutinho, Sturridge and Aspas (on the right like yesterday) means we have goals in all of our front four players, we haven't had that in so long, I can see it making a major difference for us and that is without including Suarez or any new attacking player we may buy.

Edited July 29, 2013 by The_Adder

[surf]

i think we should look at gerrard in a deeper position, with henderson the one pushing up. i reckon gerrard can get tons of games in front of the back 4, but as an attacking threat he'll need more legs. does that make sense?

[The_Adder]

I just don't see any kind of hints that Gerrard is going to be moved into that kind of a role again :-(

 

You may be in for a nice surprise then going from yesterday's friendly, and that being our 'team to start against Stoke'

 

i think we should look at gerrard in a deeper position, with henderson the one pushing up. i reckon gerrard can get tons of games in front of the back 4, but as an attacking threat he'll need more legs. does that make sense?

 

Going to have to disagree, Henderson to me is a CM, he isn't enough of a goalscorer to play that role for a season, he was a decent stop gap at the end of the last.

 

Gerrard's best position has always been further forward, and until his legs do go (I dont think he is there yet!) I wouldn't even contemplate moving him that far back when he is by far our most effective attacking midfielder.

Edited July 29, 2013 by The_Adder

[Logic]

IMO it would be better to get a better holding player (makelele/hamann type), play a 1-2 in midfield with Lucas pushed further forward.

 

Lucas isn't a real holding midfielder as he likes to be involved more which tends to create a gap in front of the defense.

[Swan Red]

We need better players for the midfield

[SME]

You may be in for a nice surprise then going from yesterday's friendly, and that being our 'team to start against Stoke'

 

 

I saw it as Allen who was the midfielder who played further forward yesterday, at least for the first 60 mins or so.

 

Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to the game though ..... :)/>

Edited July 29, 2013 by Strider

[Earl Hafler]

IMO it would be better to get a better holding player (makelele/hamann type), play a 1-2 in midfield with Lucas pushed further forward.

 

Lucas isn't a real holding midfielder as he likes to be involved more which tends to create a gap in front of the defense.

 

Not sure Lucas is as influential as he was. With more pace in the back four ( probably the quickest it's been for many a year ) and both Henderson and Allen with another season under their belt.

[surf]

You may be in for a nice surprise then going from yesterday's friendly, and that being our 'team to start against Stoke'

 

 

 

Going to have to disagree, Henderson to me is a CM, he isn't enough of a goalscorer to play that role for a season, he was a decent stop gap at the end of the last.

 

Gerrard's best position has always been further forward, and until his legs do go (I dont think he is there yet!) I wouldn't even contemplate moving him that far back when he is by far our most effective attacking midfielder.

 

out of all our midfielders it's henderson that consistently got into goalscoring positions. quite a few times forwards werent aware of his position and didnt pass it, he got himself a few goals those times they did. once they cop on he'll get around 10 league goals IMO

[Knox_Harrington]

We need better players for the midfield

Who wouldn't you play and when?

[RafaShanks]

We need better players for the midfield

 

This.

 

Midfield worries me the most. Apart from Lucas & Stevie, not good enough. If either get injured, we will be in trouble. Think Alberto could potentially fill in for Stevie, but still no cover for Lucas.

 

Think we're easily bullied.

 

Don't think Allen is good enough.

 

Henderson if fit should be starting ahead Allen.

[Swan Red]

Who wouldn't you play and when?

 

I'd play all of them at times but each of them, bar Gerrard, can be improved on. You have Gerrard Lucas Boss New Midfielder and we have a very good midfield, same for Gerrard, Allen/Henderson, BNM. I don't know we have a strong enough midfield when we are choosing only from those options we already have. Unless we move Coutinho to CM (ish).

[Knox_Harrington]

I'd play all of them at times but each of them, bar Gerrard, can be improved on. You have Gerrard Lucas Boss New Midfielder and we have a very good midfield, same for Gerrard, Allen/Henderson, BNM. I don't know we have a strong enough midfield when we are choosing only from those options we already have. Unless we move Coutinho to CM (ish).

Or you use Gerrard further forward as well?

 

We were going for Mhktariyan. I'd use Coutinho inside semi-regularly and look to get a wide option. Horses for courses I'd then go with.

[The_Adder]

out of all our midfielders it's henderson that consistently got into goalscoring positions. quite a few times forwards werent aware of his position and didnt pass it, he got himself a few goals those times they did. once they cop on he'll get around 10 league goals IMO

 

Who do you think is better as an attacking midfielder, Gerrard or Henderson?

[Logic]

Not sure Lucas is as influential as he was. With more pace in the back four ( probably the quickest it's been for many a year ) and both Henderson and Allen with another season under their belt.

He isn't as influential as he was because he's playing a role that doesn't suit him IMO. He has been playing as the holding midfielder I either a 1-2 midfield or a 4231. Problem is that he was at his best when playing a more proactive role which included pressing the opponent and winning tackles. He's also a good passer of the ball so he should fit in a lot better if he is played further forward. A midfield of Hamann*; Lucas - Gerrard in a 1-2 with three forwards in front of them is better balanced than a midfield with Lucas; Allen* - Gerrard.

 

Playing a 2-1 in midfield changes the whole setup of the team with the wide forwards having to be more like wingers. It also requires that 1 to be a Rafa-era Gerrard type of player (being able to play as a midfielder and a forward) and we don't have a player like that at the moment as I don't think Stevie can play that role over the course of a full season and Coutinho is more of a forward than a midfielder.

 

* type of player rather than those exact players.

[Swan Red]

Or you use Gerrard further forward as well?

 

We were going for Mhktariyan. I'd use Coutinho inside semi-regularly and look to get a wide option. Horses for courses I'd then go with.

 

Even then I don't think the players behind Gerrard are good enough, I think we have a lot of players in the squad who are useful and can do a job, see Downing, but aren't going to lift you up the table. We've all pointed to players that have won titles and trophies while being relatively limited as players the trick is to not have 7 of them on the pitch simultaneously.

[Logic]

I'd play all of them at times but each of them, bar Gerrard, can be improved on. You have Gerrard Lucas Boss New Midfielder and we have a very good midfield, same for Gerrard, Allen/Henderson, BNM. I don't know we have a strong enough midfield when we are choosing only from those options we already have. Unless we move Coutinho to CM (ish).

Agree with this. The BNM should be a holding midfielder rather than any other type though IMO. If the aim is to play a 4123 at least.

[Knox_Harrington]

Even then I don't think the players behind Gerrard are good enough, I think we have a lot of players in the squad who are useful and can do a job, see Downing, but aren't going to lift you up the table. We've all pointed to players that have won titles and trophies while being relatively limited as players the trick is to not have 7 of them on the pitch simultaneously.

I think it is more question marks than these players being "relatively limited". They've all been more than useful, arguably all been more than useful in quite consistent spells. But still have question marks over them. Can Lucas get back to what he was pre injury? Can Allen show his early season form consistently? Can Henderson continue to develop? Will Gerrard do the business regularly further forward if we need him to? Can Coutinho impose himself week in week out? And can the manager pick the right combination for the right game regularly enough?

 

The concern is it feels like there is at least one too many gambles in there.

[Swan Red]

I think it is more question marks than these players being "relatively limited". They've all been more than useful, arguably all been more than useful in quite consistent spells. But still have question marks over them. Can Lucas get back to what he was pre injury? Can Allen show his early season form consistently? Can Henderson continue to develop? Will Gerrard do the business regularly further forward if we need him to? Can Coutinho impose himself week in week out? And can the manager pick the right combination for the right game regularly enough?

 

The concern is it feels like there is at least one too many gambles in there.

 

Yeah I think that's a better description and there's still the Suarez question to be resolved that reduces the need for a BNM if he stays. I'm reluctant to base an opinion of them by their best games and as it's equally a mistake to judge them by their worst we'll take an average and they are average. They can step up but the gambles in their are reduced if you nail a midfield spot. We thought we'd done it last year with Sahin and Allen coming in and I'm here again this year wanting us to do it now.