Just fed up with the circus

[Chewie]

Sorry, but this touches on so many of the threads that didn't know which one to put this in. The one thing about our club that has been done right on or off the pitch for the last 5 years has been Hillsborough campaign. The individuals involved have kept their dignity, fought for something that truly matters, and held the name of this football club high. That this tragedy extends back into the late 80s is simply a reminder of a time when as a club, we mattered, as a football team, we mattered. We are not trapped in our past because of Hillsborough, we are simply reminded by it of a past when the club really mattered, when it got it right - on and off the pitch. The club still matters to us, but the circus almost has come to matter more. We are a circus in which the sideshows are what now entertain us, when transfer windows fill us with more excitement than the players transferred, when whether or not this player or that player has a song and how good it is seems important, when we are passed from the stewardship of an owner who loved the club but was inept, to charlatans who nearly wiped us out, to businessmen. Blunt, hard nosed, disconnected businessmen. When the stadium is never developed nor built, when our expectations for a manager of Liverpool Football Club can stoop so low with Hodgson that we take a punt, and it is - in the cold light of day - a massive punt, on an upcoming young manager whose integrity is not in question but whose capacity is (and should be). When we finish routinely 20-30 points (practically a third of a season) behind our greatest rivals, who have marched past us into the English league record books, and we still have the temerity to say that for 20 years its been bad referring or they're not all that good, and when the fact they have trounced us in the league becomes so irrelevant because it becomes so expected, that we focus all our attention on justifying to ourselves that one of our players is being hard done by for biting another player on a football pitch. Biting. We are talking about biting. Man United are talking about open top bus parades and that doesn't even bother us anymore. Even we don't think that we, competitively, matter. It's a circus, devoid of real leadership, with no direction, and it's what 'Being Liverpool', another joke, has become. I have no idea how this ends. I have no idea how the fans demand more, how we demand that the bar be raised, because for as long as we keep feeding on what brand Liverpool has regressed into, the longer the circus will stay in town. Right now I'm pinning my hopes that a young, inexperienced but very well intentioned manager, can rise above it and produce a miracle. Because above and below him its a circus and, in the footballing sense of the word, it's depressing. Boo

[David Hodgson]

Sorry, but this touches on so many of the threads that didn't know which one to put this in. The one thing about our club that has been done right on or off the pitch for the last 5 years has been Hillsborough campaign. The individuals involved have kept their dignity, fought for something that truly matters, and held the name of this football club high. That this tragedy extends back into the late 80s is simply a reminder of a time when as a club, we mattered, as a football team, we mattered. We are not trapped in our past because of Hillsborough, we are simply reminded by it of a past when the club really mattered, when it got it right - on and off the pitch. The club still matters to us, but the circus almost has come to matter more. We are a circus in which the sideshows are what now entertain us, when transfer windows fill us with more excitement than the players transferred, when whether or not this player or that player has a song and how good it is seems important, when we are passed from the stewardship of an owner who loved the club but was inept, to charlatans who nearly wiped us out, to businessmen. Blunt, hard nosed, disconnected businessmen. When the stadium is never developed nor built, when our expectations for a manager of Liverpool Football Club can stoop so low with Hodgson that we take a punt, and it is - in the cold light of day - a massive punt, on an upcoming young manager whose integrity is not in question but whose capacity is (and should be). When we finish routinely 20-30 points (practically a third of a season) behind our greatest rivals, who have marched past us into the English league record books, and we still have the temerity to say that for 20 years its been bad referring or they're not all that good, and when the fact they have trounced us in the league becomes so irrelevant because it becomes so expected, that we focus all our attention on justifying to ourselves that one of our players is being hard done by for biting another player on a football pitch. Biting. We are talking about biting. Man United are talking about open top bus parades and that doesn't even bother us anymore. Even we don't think that we, competitively, matter. It's a circus, devoid of real leadership, with no direction, and it's what 'Being Liverpool', another joke, has become. I have no idea how this ends. I have no idea how the fans demand more, how we demand that the bar be raised, because for as long as we keep feeding on what brand Liverpool has regressed into, the longer the circus will stay in town. Right now I'm pinning my hopes that a young, inexperienced but very well intentioned manager, can rise above it and produce a miracle. Because above and below him its a circus and, in the footballing sense of the word, it's depressing. Boo

 

Chewie, for the love of Jesus, please start using paragraphs. My brain won't let me read that. I'm sorry Chewie. I love you man.

[Bogman]

I thought when Rafa's Liverpool were distroying all and sundry we were back, and back big time, but since that point, everything that I cherish about Liverpool has been dismantled, to such a degree I don't recognise us anymore.

We roll over more now and have our tummy's tiggled. We don't stand up to people, we play the game and get shafted for it and if we do nothing but accept this Suarez ban, then a little bit more of my club disappears.

[The_Adder]

Football is f***ed.

[Chewie]

Sorry, but this touches on so many of the threads that didn't know which one to put this in. The one thing about our club that has been done right on or off the pitch for the last 5 years has been Hillsborough campaign. The individuals involved have kept their dignity, fought for something that truly matters, and held the name of this football club high. That this tragedy extends back into the late 80s is simply a reminder of a time when as a club, we mattered, as a football team, we mattered. We are not trapped in our past because of Hillsborough, we are simply reminded by it of a past when the club really mattered, when it got it right - on and off the pitch. The club still matters to us, but the circus almost has come to matter more.

 

We are a circus in which the sideshows are what now entertain us, when transfer windows fill us with more excitement than the players transferred, when whether or not this player or that player has a song and how good it is seems important, when we are passed from the stewardship of an owner who loved the club but was inept, to charlatans who nearly wiped us out, to businessmen. Blunt, hard nosed, disconnected businessmen.

 

When the stadium is never developed nor built, when our expectations for a manager of Liverpool Football Club can stoop so low with Hodgson that we take a punt, and it is - in the cold light of day - a massive punt, on an upcoming young manager whose integrity is not in question but whose capacity is (and should be).

 

When we finish routinely 20-30 points (practically a third of a season) behind our greatest rivals, who have marched past us into the English league record books, and we still have the temerity to say that for 20 years its been bad referring or they're not all that good, and when the fact they have trounced us in the league becomes so irrelevant because it becomes so expected, that we focus all our attention on justifying to ourselves that one of our players is being hard done by for biting another player on a football pitch. Biting. We are talking about biting. Man United are talking about open top bus parades and that doesn't even bother us anymore. Even we don't think that we, competitively, matter.

 

It's a circus, devoid of real leadership, with no direction, and it's what 'Being Liverpool', another joke, has become. I have no idea how this ends. I have no idea how the fans demand more, how we demand that the bar be raised, because for as long as we keep feeding on what brand Liverpool has regressed into, the longer the circus will stay in town. Right now I'm pinning my hopes that a young, inexperienced but very well intentioned manager, can rise above it and produce a miracle. Because above and below him its a circus and, in the footballing sense of the word, it's depressing. Boo

 

Just for you DH..for some reason I can't edit my original, so I've done it by reply :-)

[Falconhoof]

Clubs run this badly, get what's coming to them.

It's been stupid decision after stupid decision for years now, but the worst part is that after getting rid of hicks and Gillet, I don't think these owners want it badly enough. They will take success if it comes along with a bit of luck but they aren't going to strive for it.

The starting point should be, 'what will it take to win the league?' Not 'what revenue can we squeeze out of every seat, and every televised game.'

Yes we need the money, but there is a fairly straightforward route to being a wealthy football club and that's to win things.

[marty]

looking at Dortmund and their fabolous team,stadium and unique fans, have to say iam envious...that used to be us but sadly no more

[Ed the Wool]

Apart from Kenny coming back, it's been a s*** sandwich for a long time now. Being badly run of course doesn't just start with Hicks and Gilett. We're reaping what we failed to sow under Moores and Parry now as well in terms of off the pitch infrastructure and the stadium.

 

Rafa had us punching well above our weight for a few years there. I think it'll take another monumental talent to drag us back up from mid table now. In the meantime we have to hope that FSG are going to deliver on the stadium, and try to gain whatever advantages we can off the pitch in terms of developing youth, training facilities etc. I don't think they've got the depth of experience to do the latter or the ability to listen to people that do at this point.

 

Our trajectory as it stands is limping along mid table for a while yet.

[smithdown]

Happily my ticket has gone up by brewsters and the deadline to pay has even been brought forward in order to help the club pay for...I dunno...Sahin's loan or something, so everything is f*cking great.

[Billy Talbot]

Football is f***ed.

 

Yeah, football is f***ed. Which doesn't help. But we don't help ourselves do we? And we haven't done since the late 80s.

 

I agree with pretty much everything Chewie's sayin'. We're slipping away and have been for a very long time, we raised our heads under Houllier, but bar a couple of years with Benitez we've been soft for 20 years. We've not been the club I grew up with. On or off the field.

 

I like Brendan, but I can't see him and only him dragging us out of the mire. We need a really excellent CEO to come in and shake the whole thing up from top to bottom. Someone with drive, ambition and know-how to build the club back up to the top of football, and do it "The Liverpool Way". Does that person even exist? Who knows. But they're not at the club right now. The club is f***ed.

[Ed the Wool]

Yeah, football is f***ed. Which doesn't help. But we don't help ourselves do we? And we haven't done since the late 80s.

 

I agree with pretty much everything Chewie's sayin'. We're slipping away and have been for a very long time, we raised our heads under Houllier, but bar a couple of years with Benitez we've been soft for 20 years. We've not been the club I grew up with. On or off the field.

 

I like Brendan, but I can't see him and only him dragging us out of the mire. We need a really excellent CEO to come in and shake the whole thing up from top to bottom. Someone with drive, ambition and know-how to build the club back up to the top of football, and do it "The Liverpool Way". Does that person even exist? Who knows. But they're not at the club right now. The club is f***ed.

 

On the basis of this week we need Germans!

[smithdown]

Apart from Kenny coming back...

 

 

remember that leak/article that said he was going to be approached to come back to the club a few months ago?

 

that's the measure of this club now tbf

[Earl Hafler]

On the basis of this week we need Germans!

 

Rarely a bad thing. Reidle, Babbel and Hamann. And then Meijer.

 

Feck knows what happened with Zeige.

[Bailo]

Clubs run this badly, get what's coming to them.

It's been stupid decision after stupid decision for years now, but the worst part is that after getting rid of hicks and Gillet, I don't think these owners want it badly enough. They will take success if it comes along with a bit of luck but they aren't going to strive for it.

The starting point should be, 'what will it take to win the league?' Not 'what revenue can we squeeze out of every seat, and every televised game.'

Yes we need the money, but there is a fairly straightforward route to being a wealthy football club and that's to win things.

Yep. Totally agree.

 

looking at Dortmund and their fabolous team,stadium and unique fans, have to say iam envious...that used to be us but sadly no more

They are brilliant aren't they? Love that club, love the stadium and I love Klopp.

[muleskinner]

Yep. Totally agree.

 

 

They are brilliant aren't they? Love that club, love the stadium and I love Klopp.

 

They couldn't pay their own payroll in 2003, it was loaned to them by Bayern Munich (who seem to get first dibs on all their best players now for some reason...), nearly went bust again in 2005. Sold the stadium name to keep them afloat.

 

Moved on well but it shows what can be done.

[_00_deathscar]

It's not JUST about winning stuff. Under Rafa, I felt like he'd fight tooth and nail for us.

 

Since then, apart from Kenny, it's generally just been run by weaklings from top to bottom.

[Molby]

They couldn't pay their own payroll in 2003, it was loaned to them by Bayern Munich (who seem to get first dibs on all their best players now for some reason...), nearly went bust again in 2005. Sold the stadium name to keep them afloat.

 

Moved on well but it shows what can be done.

 

agree

 

was almost in tears (of frustration) watching the spectacle last night and trying to be positive about all the things we have going for us, I kept running in to the same brick wall

 

namely: who at our club, can lead us back to glory? who can face down all our enemies, and drag the club back to where it belongs? this has been the problem since Rafa left. Nobody made of the rights stuff and also with the skill and determination to see it through. And this is the thing: I'm sure if Rafa came back he would be demanding the support and leadership the club needs off the field, as he used to with Parry.

 

But FSG won't commit to that and that's why they don't want him. It's f*** all to do with baggage. Mugs can believe that if they want but it's a crock.

 

It's about commitment; and commitment isn't just about how much money you spend in any transfer window as we are no doubt about to see yet again with the way we handle the latest Suarez situation.

 

"If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor" £5 but promise not to google it, scout's honour

[muleskinner]

agree

 

was almost in tears (of frustration) watching the spectacle last night and trying to be positive about all the things we have going for us, I kept running in to the same brick wall

 

namely: who at our club, can lead us back to glory? who can face down all our enemies, and drag the club back to where it belongs? this has been the problem since Rafa left. Nobody made of the rights stuff and also with the skill and determination to see it through. And this is the thing: I'm sure if Rafa came back he would be demanding the support and leadership the club needs off the field, as he used to with Parry.

 

But FSG won't commit to that and that's why they don't want him. It's f*** all to do with baggage. Mugs can believe that if they want but it's a crock.

 

It's about commitment; and commitment isn't just about how much money you spend in any transfer window as we are no doubt about to see yet again with the way we handle the latest Suarez situation.

 

"If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor" £5 but promise not to google it, scout's honour

 

James innit.

[Tones]

It's not JUST about winning stuff. Under Rafa, I felt like he'd fight tooth and nail for us.

 

Since then, apart from Kenny, it's generally just been run by weaklings from top to bottom.

Aye. Not loving the set up at the club at the minute

[owenthomas]

It's not JUST about winning stuff. Under Rafa, I felt like he'd fight tooth and nail for us.

 

Since then, apart from Kenny, it's generally just been run by weaklings from top to bottom.

which was always the point.. he'd fight tooth and nail to be successful.. it's what got him the sack because he questioned whether the owners were on the same page.. we were only where we were because of him, he was the glue holding it together, he was the one wanting control of everything because he didn't trust the spineless f*****s at the club to run it properly themselves.. some of our fans wanted him out because they thought we were better than we actually were - they couldn't see the bigger picture.. well, here's yer bigger f***ing picture people.......

 

since then we've been fed line after line about how we are in transition, how it will be a few years to compete at the highest level.. why? why aren't we trying to bring this 'few years' forward with some hard-nosed foresight, money and ambition?.. this club used to stand up for itself.. this club used to be all about winning.. now it just wants to pander to the masses and ensure the media and PR game is played so that we don't look bad.. we're on the edge.. we're going to become nothing if we're not careful..

 

i'm f***ing well pissed off with it all..

[yellow jumper]

dortmund barely had anyone identifiable at the club who you could say would lead them back to the glory they enjoyed in the mid to late 90s. it's barmy to point to them now, if you're not also willing to point at them when they were average, lacked experience and looked like a club in genuine danger of going out of business in the early 200os. and if you are willing to consider this, then it should also be possible to see a contradictory argument, if not reign in your inner chimp completely.

Edited April 25, 2013 by yellow jumper

[Bootle Buck]

After watching the ridiculous "Being Liverpool" and seeing a new young manager living in a mansion with his own portrait hung above his head driving a car worth more than many fans make in 2-3 years it just hammered home the circus that has become Liverpool FC. All this while we routinely finish 30 points from our "so called" rivals. We built a dynasty as a club with a group of blue collared coaches who came rom lower divisions yet won more trophies that any other managers around. We lauded home grown players who had cut their teeth at places like Doncaster, Sc***horpe etc. We were run by fine businessmen and execs that did things efficiently, effectively and behind closed doors. Since those days and with the introduction of the Premier League and TV money we have completely lost our way on and off the field. Watching Bayern the other night had me comparing where they are now compared to where we have gone. They have had the leadership to allow them to continue on as a European powerhouse. Dortmund reminded me of the Liverpool I knew in the 70's and 80's. I left Liverpool to live in the States in 1983 when we were the best team in Europe. I would never have dreamt in a million years that Liverpool FC would one day be in the shape it is today. We are aimlessly floating in mediocrity and seemed to have missed the boat. Our big rivals as much as it pains me have had direction and the right management to completely pass our accomplishments and find the winning formula.

[Molby]

dortmund barely had anyone identifiable at the club who you could say would lead them back to the glory they enjoyed in the mid to late 90s. it's barmy to point to them now, if you're not also willing to point at them when they were average, lacked experience and looked like a club in genuine danger of going out of business in the early 200os. and if you are willing to consider this, then it should also be possible to see a contradictory argument, if not reign in your inner chimp completely.

 

so how did they get to where they are now?

 

James innit.

 

s'ppose

[Ronnie#5]

f*** Dortmund.

 

I want my Liverpool back.

 

Leadership matters. A whole lot. We ain't got any.

 

The only man for the job was Kenny and the c**** binned him for 'potential'.

 

We need him back, and FSG can stick their Ambassadorial role up their hole. Head of Football Operations. Our Uli Hoeness (without the tax dodging). He's not the manager, he's not the Director of Football but it is the f***ing boss. Let Ayre run the company if that's what FSG want. The commercial side is actually going quote well so fair dues to him for that.

 

Its a mad idea isn't it? Appoint someone who bleeds the clubs values, will always put the club first, who'll fight for us to the f***ing death if we asked him. And by the way is a f***ing football genius.

 

"You wouldn't have anyone else in your corner" said Graeme Souness in the middle of his brain fart on Sky this Sunday. He's not wrong.

 

If they'd ever have the balls/insight to make such a move then maybe, just maybe, we have a chance of getting our club back.

 

 

I lamented the state of our club in the Rodgers thread 3 days ago but it was full of f*** him and f*** them's. Karl Coppacks recent TAW piece is probably the most accurate (& brilliantly written) piece of writing on the football club I've seen in years. Read it ....

 

My link

Edited April 25, 2013 by Ronnie#5

[Ed the Wool]

dortmund barely had anyone identifiable at the club who you could say would lead them back to the glory they enjoyed in the mid to late 90s. it's barmy to point to them now, if you're not also willing to point at them when they were average, lacked experience and looked like a club in genuine danger of going out of business in the early 200os. and if you are willing to consider this, then it should also be possible to see a contradictory argument, if not reign in your inner chimp completely.

 

In a roundabout way I think you're saying it's all down to Klopp? Or not?