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LFC Assists

David Hodgson

By David Hodgson
in Liverpool FC

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David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
Posted

This is an extension of a discussion in the Coutinho thread but thought it needed its own one. 'Assists' are always an interesting stat but with few solid records of 'em. Thought it might be an idea to keep a record of our ones.

 

Here's a fairly comprehensive and reasonable list to date, from here : http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/314385-Goals-and-Assists-Tally-2012-2013/page7

 

 

Assists so far

 

Gerrard 11- 9 Premier League 1 Europa League 1 League Cup

Suarez 9- 6 Premier League 3 Europa League.

Downing 8- 4 Premier League 1 FA Cup 3 Europa League.

Sterling 5- 5 Premier League.

Henderson 5- 3 Premier League 2 Europa League.

Johnson 4- 4 Premier League.

Enrique 3- 3 Premier League.

Sahin 3- 2 Premier League 1 Europa League

Sturridge 3- 2 Premier League 1 FA Cup.

Lucas 1- 1 Premier League.

Carragher 1- 1 Premier League.

Shelvey 1- 1 FA Cup.

Kelly 1- 1 Europa League.

Cole 1- 1 Europa League.

Suso 1- 1 Europa League.

Assaidi 1- 1 League Cup.

Cunny

Cunny

Posted
Posted

I run a fantasy footy league with my mates.

We award the assists ourselves. This is Premier League only.

We give assists if a player wins a pen/free kick (foulde or causes a handball) that is directly scored from.

 

Gerrard 12

Suarez 8

Sterling 6

Johnson 5

Enrique 5

Downing 4

Henderson 3

Sturridge 2

Lucas 1

Carragher 1

Sahin 1

David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I run a fantasy footy league with my mates.

We award the assists ourselves. This is Premier League only.

We give assists if a player wins a pen/free kick (foulde or causes a handball) that is directly scored from.

 

Gerrard 12

Suarez 8

Sterling 6

Johnson 5

Enrique 5

Downing 4

Henderson 3

Sturridge 2

Lucas 1

Carragher 1

Sahin 1

 

I vote we use yours as the base to work off. we can add to it after each game. t would be nice to have a credible reference points to these assist debates.

Cunny

Cunny

Posted
Posted

ok

we usually give an assist to the last person to touch the ball prior to the scorer even if an own goal (eg Sterling v Norwich)

if a player is fouled for a penalty or free kick and we score direct from the pen/free kick

if a player crosses/passes and cause handball which results in a direct goal from resulting free kick or pen (Enrique v Swansea for Sturridge pen)

David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

ok

we usually give an assist to the last person to touch the ball prior to the scorer even if an own goal (eg Sterling v Norwich)

if a player is fouled for a penalty or free kick and we score direct from the pen/free kick

if a player crosses/passes and cause handball which results in a direct goal from resulting free kick or pen (Enrique v Swansea for Sturridge pen)

 

Yeah. I'm all for giving the stat to someone rather leaving it as a void.Many a goal is scored that is barely to the credit of the actual scorer that we shouldn't worry about giving an assist to a defender who just wellies it clear and it ends up being the last touch before a forward volleyed it home from 40 yards.

 

Also, anyone bored enough to go through this (for all comps) and do a compare with Cunny's one ? It would be nice to kind close to definitive on this.

Earl Hafler

Earl Hafler

Posted
Posted (edited)

Giving someone an assist for being fouled for a freekick is daft.

 

If we can keep a tally of more accurate stats then great

Edited by Earl Hafler
Gomez

Gomez

Posted
Posted

Giving someone an assist for being fouled for a freekick is daft.

 

If we can keep a tally of more accurate stats then great

Not if they are playing for it.

 

Did Borini get an assist for that oggy v Hearts? He didn't touch it but clearly if he's not there it's not scored.

Earl Hafler

Earl Hafler

Posted
Posted

Not if they are playing for it.

 

 

They should be more accurate, not just " he won the freekick / was fouled so he gets the assist ".

 

Rather lazy when you consider the ridiculous effort and attention to detail involved every game.

David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

They should be more accurate, not just " he won the freekick / was fouled so he gets the assist ".

 

Rather lazy when you consider the ridiculous effort and attention to detail involved every game.

 

Saying it's the last touch before the goal is just recording an event. It's not saying it's nearly as good as scoring a goal or anything. If someone beats two, goes clear, get hauled down and then someone scores the free kick then why isn't it the fouled guy's assist ? If the finish that follows the pass or whatever is especially good does that cancel out the assist ?

 

If a goal can be scored fortuitously or accidentally, or be a miss-hit then why can't we have crap or mediocre assists too?

 

An assist should be a simple fact, like a goal, not something subjective.

 

Not if they are playing for it.

 

Did Borini get an assist for that oggy v Hearts? He didn't touch it but clearly if he's not there it's not scored.

 

The assister is the guy who makes the pass that the goal is scored from. There's got to be a touch on the ball, surely.

Cunny

Cunny

Posted
Posted

Here are the assists I have for league games.

Scorer then Assister

 

WEST BROM 3 LIVERPOOL 0

 

LIVERPOOL 2 MAN CITY 2

SKRTEL GERRARD

SUAREZ GERRARD

 

LIVERPOOL 0 ARSENAL 2

SUNDERLAND 1 LIVERPOOL 1

SUAREZ STERLING

 

LIVERPOOL 1 MAN UTD 2

GERRARD JOHNSON

 

NORWICH 2 LIVERPOOL 5

SUAREZ JOHNSON

SUAREZ NO ASSIST

SAHIN SUAREZ

SUAREZ SAHIN

GERRARD STERLING

 

LIVERPOOL 0 STOKE 0

 

LIVERPOOL 1 READING 0

STERLING SUAREZ

 

EVERTON 2 LIVERPOOL 2

BAINES(OG) SUAREZ

SUAREZ GERRARD

 

LIVERPOOL 1 NEWCASTLE 1

SUAREZ ENRIQUE

 

CHELSEA 1 LIVERPOOL 1

SUAREZ CARRAGHER

 

LIVERPOOL 3 WIGAN 0

SUAREZ STERLING

SUAREZ ENRIQUE

ENRIQUE STERLING

 

SWANSEA 0 LIVERPOOL 0

 

TOTTENHAM 2 LIVERPOOL 1

BALE(OG) GERRARD

 

LIVERPOOL 1 SOUTHAMPTON 0

AGGER JOHNSON

 

WEST HAM 2 LIVERPOOL 3

JOHNSON GERRARD

COLE STERLING

SHELVEY HENDERSON

 

LIVERPOOL 1 ASTON VILLA 3

GERRARD JOHNSON

 

LIVERPOOL 4 FULHAM 0

SKRTEL GERRARD

GERRARD DOWNING

DOWNING GERRARD

SUAREZ ENRIQUE

 

STOKE 3 LIVERPOOL 1

GERRARD(P) SUAREZ

 

QPR 0 LIVERPOOL 3

SUAREZ HENDERSON

SUAREZ DOWNING

AGGER GERRARD

 

LIVERPOOL 3 SUNDERLAND 0

STERLING SUAREZ

SUAREZ GERRARD

SUAREZ GERRARD

 

MAN UTD 2 LIVERPOOL 1

STURRIDGE GERRARD

 

LIVERPOOL 5 NORWICH 0

HENDERSON SUAREZ

SUAREZ LUCAS

STURRIDGE DOWNING

GERRARD JOHNSON

BENNETT R(OG) STERLING

 

ARSENAL 2 LIVERPOOL 2

SUAREZ HENDERSON

HENDERSON STURRIDGE

 

MAN CITY 2 LIVERPOOL 2

STURRIDGE GERRARD

GERRARD ENRIQUE

 

LIVERPOOL 0 WEST BROM 2

 

LIVERPOOL 5 SWANSEA 0

GERRARD(P) SUAREZ

COUTINHO SUAREZ

ENRIQUE STURRIDGE

SUAREZ DOWNING

STURRIDGE(P) ENRIQUE

Drexl

Drexl

Posted
Posted (edited)

Saying it's the last touch before the goal is just recording an event. It's not saying it's nearly as good as scoring a goal or anything. If someone beats two, goes clear, get hauled down and then someone scores the free kick then why isn't it the fouled guy's assist ? If the finish that follows the pass or whatever is especially good does that cancel out the assist ?

 

If a goal can be scored fortuitously or accidentally, or be a miss-hit then why can't we have crap or mediocre assists too?

 

An assist should be a simple fact, like a goal, not something subjective.

 

 

Assists should be "official", given points and awards. Goalpoints, like in the NHL. They also give two players assists, I think. Not a bad idea. Would improve the likes of Xabi's and other deep lying midfielders stats.

Edited by Drexl
Cunny

Cunny

Posted
Posted

there is no perfect system for assists, it is very subjective

 

The Suarez goal against Norwich: Lucas through ball, Sturridge dummy - Lucas gets the assist but Sturridge's dummy was crucial to the chance being created and goal scored.

Gomez

Gomez

Posted
Posted

The assister is the guy who makes the pass that the goal is scored from. There's got to be a touch on the ball, surely.

 

Why? You don't have to touch the ball to be fouled to give a pen?

 

If Borini doesn't pressure the defender, he doesn't put through his net? Borini was as responsible for that goal as the crosser, if not more so.

If Suarez doesn't go up for that header on Sunday, the defender doesn't have to handball it to stop him getting it.

 

there is no perfect system for assists, it is very subjective

 

The Suarez goal against Norwich: Lucas through ball, Sturridge dummy - Lucas gets the assist but Sturridge's dummy was crucial to the chance being created and goal scored.

Yep, another good example.

David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Why? You don't have to touch the ball to be fouled to give a pen?

 

If Borini doesn't pressure the defender, he doesn't put through his net? Borini was as responsible for that goal as the crosser, if not more so.

If Suarez doesn't go up for that header on Sunday, the defender doesn't have to handball it to stop him getting it.

 

 

Yep, another good example.

 

Yeah, all valid points, but we don't look at a goal like Kuyt's first V Man U in 2011 and say it actually should go to Suarez because he did everything but apply the last touch.

 

The Norwich example is clear cut for me - it's Lucas' assist. Hard lines on Sturridge not to get a stat to record his contribution but thems the breaks. If you include the player who doesn't touch the ball then you're on to subjective assessments. 'Assists', as a stat, should be as close to 'goals', as a record of an event in near absolute terms.

 

I accept that in the case of the assist for being fouled it seems to be a contradiction to the above if the fouled player doesn't actually touch the ball, but if he was the one upended then he is being judged by the referee as having all but touched the ball but for the intervention of the man who gave the foul away.

 

If we judge assists simply as 'last man to touch the ball before a goal' or 'fouled man before a direct set piece goal' then we're working in fairly uncontroversial and indisputable terms, and generally we'll be rewarding the right person with the positive stat. Not dissimilar to calling a goalscorer a goalscorer. 9 times out of 10 the guy deserves the credit and you can't say his final touch was an utter fluke.

Gomez

Gomez

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

If we judge assists simply as 'last man to touch the ball before a goal' or 'fouled man before a direct set piece goal' then we're working in fairly uncontroversial and indisputable terms, and generally we'll be rewarding the right person with the positive stat. Not dissimilar to calling a goalscorer a goalscorer. 9 times out of 10 the guy deserves the credit and you can't say his final touch was an utter fluke.

 

I don't really do fantasy football any more, but I thought an assist was a key contribution to a goal, not just last person to touch it.

 

I agree it is subjective, but if you are going to be a strict last-man-before-the-scorer you quickly render it meaningless. The whole point in assists is to recognise those that made it easy for the scorer.

 

An example would be the Sahin goal v WBA. Suso put Assaidi through, who then crossed for the tap in. Suso's ball made the goal really.

 

It depends what the objective is in doing this really.

Edited by Gomez
Earl Hafler

Earl Hafler

Posted
Posted

Saying it's the last touch before the goal is just recording an event. It's not saying it's nearly as good as scoring a goal or anything. If someone beats two, goes clear, get hauled down and then someone scores the free kick then why isn't it the fouled guy's assist ? If the finish that follows the pass or whatever is especially good does that cancel out the assist ?

 

If a goal can be scored fortuitously or accidentally, or be a miss-hit then why can't we have crap or mediocre assists too?

 

An assist should be a simple fact, like a goal, not something subjective.

 

No, an assist should be exactly what it says on the tin. If it's not then don't count it. Just record the goal.

A goal is a goal. They are not subjective.

 

Unless you're Howard Webb.

 

Yeah, all valid points, but we don't look at a goal like Kuyt's first V Man U in 2011 and say it actually should go to Suarez because he did everything but apply the last touch.

 

In that situation a touch was needed.

 

And a goal is a goal. You'd only give it to Suarez in some ridiculously over polite parallel universe.

David Hodgson

David Hodgson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

No, an assist should be exactly what it says on the tin. If it's not then don't count it. Just record the goal.

A goal is a goal. They are not subjective.

 

Unless you're Howard Webb.

 

 

 

In that situation a touch was needed.

 

And a goal is a goal. You'd only give it to Suarez in some ridiculously over polite parallel universe.

 

And what does an assist say on the tin ? Truth is there's usually more than one contributor to a goal. Lets keep it simple and just count the last touch or the debate will be endless. Where did anyone say an assist had to be of a certain quality ?

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