Defence

[surf]

Arsenal looked like scoring every time they went forward, we couldn't handle a league 1 brutish striker and set pieces are costing us goals.

Where's the problem and how do we fix it? Is it personel? Is it not training properly? Is it tactics? Wish i had the answers.

I'm not convinced Wisdom is ready, Agger has looked very poor at defensive duties - keeps losing his man, Skrtel doesn't convince me when defenders run at him - gets easily turned and Enrique and Johnson often go missing cause they bomb up the pitch.

I think i'd go for the formation Cobs suggested in the Coutinho thread. Narrow to protect back 4 from runners and width from the fullbacks (GJ, LE (i mean JE)). I think i'd drop Agger and play Carra - Skrtel in the centre. We'd still need to work hard on set pieces though.

[Epic Swindle]

Think we handled them fairly well up until their first, which was just bad basic defending and the whole mentality changes. Agger for all his finesse is very weak on set pieces and Johnson ranges from sublime going forward to ridiculous at the back. His reaction time is so poor.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Epic Swindle

[Leo No.8]

The problem is very simple - our centre halves are over rated because they make far too many basic errors in giving away cheap goals for supposedly top class defenders. Agger and Skrtel have made as many errors which have cost goals each since the start of this season as Sami Hyypia made in ten years at the club.

 

That's the difference - put Hyypia on this defence with the same systems, the same players in front and around him and we'd suddenly be a different proposition. Agger and Skrtel are too weak physically and mentally - neither leads, and both give away the types of goals that shatter confidence in the side.

 

I'd sell both in the summer whilst their stock is high and rebuild the whole defence. We've been giving away sh*t goals through sh*t individual mistakes for two seasons.

[D.Boon]

I am losing patience with Agger, he's a bit of a tart and its costing us.

[Raj]

The problem is very simple - our centre halves are over rated because they make far too many basic errors in giving away cheap goals for supposedly top class defenders. Agger and Skrtel have made as many errors which have cost goals each since the start of this season as Sami Hyypia made in ten years at the club.

 

That's the difference - put Hyypia on this defence with the same systems, the same players in front and around him and we'd suddenly be a different proposition. Agger and Skrtel are too weak physically and mentally - neither leads, and both give away the types of goals that shatter confidence in the side.

 

I'd sell both in the summer whilst their stock is high and rebuild the whole defence. We've been giving away sh*t goals through sh*t individual mistakes for two seasons.

 

Didnt you spend the best part of a summer saying that we should buy Mertesacker?

[Earl Hafler]

I am losing patience with Agger, he's a bit of a tart and its costing us.

 

He's been atrocious on defending crosses especially

[Mike]

Not defence per se - defending.

[lfc003]

I'd get Douglas in from Twente in the summer

[RafaShanks]

Forgetting Agger and Skrtel for a second, Johnno is a huge liability. Too sloppy and just switches off completely more times than not.

 

Only Wisdom can be forgiven as he's still young and very inexperienced.

 

Add to that Lucas looking a shadow of his former self since he's returned from injury.

 

For me we need both a top quality centre back and a full back in the summer, along with a dynamic defensive midfielder.

[D.Boon]

Thought Wisdom did OK tonight. All their threat was through the middle or from the right.

[Earl Hafler]

Think part of the problem with Lucas is the lack of understanding in midfield. He's gone from a four where he was the deeper of the two central midfielders and knew his role to a three where at times someone else is alongside him.

[deacon]

This is total rubbish. Our defence is very good. But try defending for 90 minutes with the ball coming back to you all the time because the players in front of you are incapable of keeping the ball. Defending starts from the front.

[DJS]

This is total rubbish. Our defence is very good. But try defending for 90 minutes with the ball coming back to you all the time because the players in front of you are incapable of keeping the ball. Defending starts from the front.

 

Totally agree with this. Our first choice back 5 is just fine.

 

I worry that Brendan's strengths dont really extend to being able to organise us defensively and make us hard to break down. Remembering how well organised & drilled we were under Houllier and Rafa, what we have now is lightyears away.

 

I'd really like Brendan to bring in a top quality defensive coach and get them well drilled at the back because it's a major weakness for us just now. We're decent going the other way but defensively, we're soft. It's not radical defending we need to learn, we cant even get the basics right. Simple defending and organisation from set pieces - the last 2 games have shown we dont have it.

[yellow jumper]

first, i think we set out to counter attack, opposed to our more usual style. means sitting deeper and looking to be direct when opportunity to attack arrives. thought we did it well first 60, but lost a bit of momentum and coherence after that. don't think it's a bad tactic. seen sides take points there in that way before this season.

 

second, think there are actually fewer and fewer sides in european football who are capable of doing that closing games down thing that the likes of benitez + mourinho sides were doing in early to mid 2000s. both madrid and chelsea lost leads/shipped goals in ways you wouldn't have thought possible under those managers 10 years ago, game's changing in my view, more commitment, belief and quality to attacks of even lower level sides, tempo increasing all the time, much harder to take sting out of games.

Edited January 31, 2013 by yellow jumper

[Zoob]

Forgetting Agger and Skrtel for a second, Johnno is a huge liability. Too sloppy and just switches off completely more times than not.

 

Only Wisdom can be forgiven as he's still young and very inexperienced.

 

Add to that Lucas looking a shadow of his former self since he's returned from injury.

 

For me we need both a top quality centre back and a full back in the summer, along with a dynamic defensive midfielder.

Lucas will hopefully get back to his pre-injury level, but we desperately need a dynamic, aggressive Mascherano type in midfield. Skrtel and Agger both look aggressive but are too soft and error prone. Wilson is young and does nothing for the attack, but is mostly solid defensively. Wouldn't say Johnson is a liability. He's not the best defensively, and with our centre backs messing up too often, this means Johnson's frailties are more exposed and costly.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Zoob

[floyd the barber]

Pah!!!!!! its obviously down go poor work on the training field.

we miss Clarke who did an outstanding job with our defence last season...with mostly the same players.

I haven't seen many individual errors...more bad set ups at corners, free kicks....a certain lack of confidence in who follows the man off the ball...etc

Edited January 31, 2013 by floyd the barber

[magneto]

Had Johnson started at right back and Enrique on the left, I think our shape would have been good from the start. Its also not fair to completely ignore the fact that when on fire, Walcott has been pretty unstoppable.

[New York Red]

Our two centre backs and our defensive midfielder just isn't right. I really believe we need to sign new players for all three positions. I think that not just because of todays game either. We lack a destroyer there. Moussa Sissoko would have been a great addition for us.

[Hieronymus Bosch]

Agger, Skrtel and Johnson have all shown they are good enough. It's just something we need to fix on the training pitch.

[growler]

Man marking an issue? Zonal seemed to have better results. We had lapses last season too.

 

I do think we need some competition back there. Complacency and arrogance a factor I reckon.

[Davvo]

Think part of the problem with Lucas is the lack of understanding in midfield. He's gone from a four where he was the deeper of the two central midfielders and knew his role to a three where at times someone else is alongside him.

 

That's not Lucas's problem, unless you're trying to say he's a thick footballer. His problem is physical and mental, not tactical.

[Leo No.8]

This is total rubbish. Our defence is very good. But try defending for 90 minutes with the ball coming back to you all the time because the players in front of you are incapable of keeping the ball. Defending starts from the front.

 

So that makes you let a player stroll in unmarked and head the ball in from a set piece does it? We concede from crosses and from set pieces all the time which is due to nothing but lack of concentration. Yes we are more open but if you look at the goals we concede, it's largely down to individual error.

[madaboutlfc]

We need a physically dominating technically outstanding Central Midfielder.. Basically we need Yaya Toure. Apart from that the team is not that bad actually

[Owen1978]

A physical dominant defender like Shawcross would make a world of difference

Edited January 31, 2013 by Owen1978

[Flight]

Totally agree with this. Our first choice back 5 is just fine.

 

I worry that Brendan's strengths dont really extend to being able to organise us defensively and make us hard to break down. Remembering how well organised & drilled we were under Houllier and Rafa, what we have now is lightyears away.

 

I'd really like Brendan to bring in a top quality defensive coach and get them well drilled at the back because it's a major weakness for us just now. We're decent going the other way but defensively, we're soft. It's not radical defending we need to learn, we cant even get the basics right. Simple defending and organisation from set pieces - the last 2 games have shown we dont have it.

 

 

This is where we're at.

 

Until it's sorted the back 6 will be on shifts as scapegoat. Though at the moment it seems Pepe, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas are all to blame simultaneously. Yet those players have all shown under more than one manager that they can be the best defence in the league.

 

 

Hoddle made a point last night that half our defenders seem to be using zonal marking and some are using man to man. He couldn't understand what we're doing. I've felt that way for a while - I'd love to hear someone who knows a lot more than me expound on it.