Luis Suarez

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

Feels like you're rebutting a point I haven't made there, deathscar.

[Hassony]

 

There are plenty more examples from Latin America.

 

 

[aka Dus]

I don't believe the video evidence proved Suarez wasn't being conciliatory either. (He put his hand on Evra's head, which in most cultures, would be considered conciliatory, but I am loathe to step down the rabbithole of debating testimony/evidence as it's all a bunch of subjective opinion in and outside of that report)

 

Negro 5 times my hole.

 

 

 

[kop205]

 

There are plenty more examples from Latin America.

 

 

Yes, but the counter to that was always that in those contexts it was being used in friendly terms.

 

I do think the fact the phrase is not intrinsically perjorative should have counted for more though. It brought massive doubt into play as to what Suarez's intended meaning was. Far more than there was had he called him, oooh, I don't know, a 'black c***' for example.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

"Black man" isn't intrinsically pejorative either.

But if he'd been saying "Alright black man" repeatedly, I'd think he was making something out of Evra's ethnicity for sledging purposes.

[Cobs]

That doesn't establish that it was racist though and there was pretty decent linguistic analysis that established reasonable doubt around whether it was, in my opinion.

 

The problem of course was that there as no obligation for them to prove it beyond reasonable doubt - which, given the seriousness of the allegation and the implications of a 'Guilty' verdict, is not really an acceptable state of affairs.

 

When you say you don't think he is a racist, do you mean that he didn't use the term in a racist manner or that he did use the term in a racist way but that it was just a momentary lapse from someone who doesn't really harbour racist views?

 

If it is the former then i don't see how you can be so accepting of the process. If it is the latter then I'm not sure I could agree that it doesn't make him a racist.

 

I think the former, obviously.

 

 

I think the latter

 

 

 

[kop205]

I don't believe the video evidence proved Suarez wasn't being conciliatory either.

 

He says himself in the interview published today that he wasn't being conciliatory.

 

I still think that the likeliest explanation is that it was said with faux friendliness, using a word that in Suarez's head is more a pet name that his wife calls him than anything more sinister.

[aka Dus]

"Black man" isn't intrinsically pejorative either.

But if he'd been saying "Alright black man" repeatedly, I'd think he was making something out of Evra's ethnicity for sledging purposes.

 

And that would be fair enough but would your opinion be worth justifying the decimation of someone's reputation? I respect your opinion after years reading your posts but I still wouldn't be comfortable with that.

 

Or some QC that the FA wheeled in to project manage three of their finest judges of character.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

I respect your opinion after years reading your posts

 

Ah thanks.

I might just duck out at this point as it's unlikely to get any better for me from here.

[kop205]

"Black man" isn't intrinsically pejorative either.

But if he'd been saying "Alright black man" repeatedly, I'd think he was making something out of Evra's ethnicity for sledging purposes.

 

'Black man' is pretty univocal though isn't it?

 

Negro - so the argument goes - is far more equivocal.

 

Notwithstanding whether he actually did say it repeatedly, of which there was only Evra's word.

 

I think the latter

 

Then I'd say he is a racist, just as I'd say John Terry is.

 

Maybe part of the reason I go for the former explanation is to avoid having to draw that conclusion about Luis.

 

it's unlikely to get any better for me from here.

 

Not sure it is for anyone and there is nothing new to add.

 

Maybe time to close/move the thread, I don't know.

[aka Dus]

Yeah, I am out too, f*** it. But it rankles in my appreciation of natural justice so I reserve the right to s**** on about it in the future too.