Players, tactical approach etc.

[MFletcher]

I do not want this to turn into a summer transfer thread where we sit here and dream about signing Xavi from Barcelona because "he wants a new challenge". I think we have had sufficient time over the course, and over the past three months' of sub-standard league form, to assess the roles and overall contributions of several players and positions within the squad. I would therefore put the question to the forum as follows: Broadly speaking, what areas would you seek to address in the summer?

 

Whilst others would focus on the wings or up front, We simply must get a top class midfielder to partner Lucas, because our options at the minute aren't up to scratch and our failure to adequately control the game and dominate the midfield is contributing significantly to our dire form. I'd also have a change of approach with regards to using certain players. For instance, I'd put Downing on the left and keep him there for the duration as playing him on the right simply isn't working. I am comfortable with the first choice back four, but feel options at left back and at centre back are somewhat limited beyond this. I believe Carragher must be fourth choice next year if he's not moved on/retiring, and a capable left back must be brought in to provide cover and half-way decent competition for Enrique. I would also occasionally play Johnson on the right wing and allow Kelly to play right back.

 

So, without lurching into transfer territory, which is not the goal of this thread, where do you perceive the chief problem areas to lie and what would you do about both in terms of personnel and tactical selection?

[Rimbeux]

Suarez is not a 9.

 

We are not good enough or advanced enough to play with a false 9

 

Carroll or a Carroll improvement has to be in the team longish term to provide something for Suarez and three others to play off

 

We need to prepare properly for each team's strengths and weaknesses. We need to stop chasing games by playing through the middle third with 'better' players. We need to get into the simplicity and the effectiveness of getting it wide, putting a good ball in and having men in the box.

[Cooldude]

Suarez cannot play on his own, he needs someone to play off. He is a no,7, not a 9

 

We are absolutely f***ING RUBBISH in wide areas, no pace, no technical ability, no real great movement. Our game plan involves crossing from nothing areas that are so easy to defend against coz we don't have pace and find it hard to get behind defenses

 

Then when Carra starts we can't defend

[schmuckdonald]

Like the last 6 months of last season, but with a better Spearing and another 9.5 to play alongside Suarez. And actually pressing the ball and pushing high up the pitch as a unit.

[Epic Swindle]

Suarez was awful today and yet he scores a peach. He needs a more disciplined player alongside him or we just lack any momentum in the final 3rd.

 

Midfield was wide open aswell. Jay is not a holding midfielder and Stevie just doesn't have the legs to close down for 90.

 

Also, Carra made us drop about 10 yards deeper today, which clearly affected our ability to get bodies forward.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Epic Swindle

[Earl Hafler]

Suarez is not a 9.

 

Agree. Been saying that all season

 

 

We are not good enough or advanced enough to play with a false 9

 

Carroll or a Carroll improvement has to be in the team longish term to provide something for Suarez and three others to play off

 

We need to prepare properly for each team's strengths and weaknesses. We need to stop chasing games by playing through the middle third with 'better' players. We need to get into the simplicity and the effectiveness of getting it wide, putting a good ball in and having men in the box.

 

Agree. The ' intelligence ' shown in the area when the ball is wide is terrible. If we're practising this in training then something is seriously wrong.

How many times do we see a player make a front post run, with others supporting this ?

 

Downing and Enrique have not formed an effective partnership. Enrique looked better when Downing went off.

[Foo]

This team has no balls. No f***ing balls to go out and kill teams.

[Swipe]

After all that money spent we are still reliant on one brilliant frontman doing something brilliant.

[Earl Hafler]

After all that money spent we are still reliant on one brilliant frontman doing something brilliant.

 

And a manager sticking with players regardless of form.

 

Shelvey came on and with little first team football under his belt, played a through ball that Henderson has matched only a couple of times this season.

[Swipe]

And a manager sticking with players regardless of form.

 

Shelvey came on and with little first team football under his belt, played a through ball that Henderson has matched only a couple of times this season.

 

The team selection has been puzzling all season. Some are picked regardless of form and we seem to change things seemingly randomly without though for tactics.

 

Sad looking at Kenny on the touch line lately too. He looks a bit embattled.

[Logic]

We need to drop the 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 with inverted wingers on both side to begin with. We need to push our wide forwards further up the field when playing the 4-1-2-3 as it often looks like a 4-1-4-1. Then replace the 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 with inverted wingers on both sides with the Spanish 4-2-3-1 we use at the reserve and academy levels.

 

That'd mean we have a traditional 4-4-2, an attacking 4-1-2-3 and lastly a solid 4-2-3-1.

 

Based on that our back 5 is solid enough with the biggest weakness the LB.

 

Our set up then requires two solid deep-lying players and we only have Lucas, though Spearo and Adam can solve the other place in the 4-2-3-1. I don't consider Stevie an option here as he should be a second forward or as an advanced midfielder. So we need to add a deep-lying midfielder to our squad.

 

Our advanced midfield options will be built with Stevie in mind. Stevie will take up a central attacking role from an advanced midfield position. He's the player in the hole in the 4-2-3-1, the more advanced midfielder in the central two in 4-4-2 and takes one of the two in the 4-1-2-3. As we are planning for the future and need to rebuild I'm not considering Kuyt, Maxi etc as starters. Henderson should be told to come back having shaved his head, and when he comes back he should be ready to put his foot in or be shipped out. This should be made absolutely clear. If he does that he'll be an option everywhere except the 4-2-3-1. Downing is the only real winger we have and therefore needs to be kept. But from now on he should only play as a traditional left winger in either the 4-4-2 or the 4-2-3-1. We are a bit light there so preferable we add to this area of the team. We'd need to add both a traditional winger (preferably right sided) and a younger version of Maxi who can play across the advanced midfield positions.

 

In attack; Suarez should not be our "nr 9". He should always play behind another real nr 9. He creates more than he finishes and should be used as such. Either coming in from the wings in the 4-1-2-3 or as one of the deeper-lying attacking players in the other formations. We have Kuyt and Bellamy but both are getting old so we need at least one more attacker and he needs to be comfortable playing either as a nr 9 or as a deeper-lying attacker. We have Carroll as our nr 9 but no one else.

 

So, we need a deeplying midfielder, an advanced midfielder, deep-lying forward and finally a nr 9. But these positions should only be strengthened with players expected to go straight into the starting eleven. If that mean we can only buy one or two then so be it. No squad players should be bought as those positions should be filled with reserve players being promoted.

 

Every player on the wrong side of 30 should be available for sale if the right price is on offer. Except Stevie.

 

A few of the youngsters should be considered full squad members. That includes players like Jonjo, Flanno, Robinson, Suso and Sterling. For most of them it's swim or sink time.

 

edit to add: that was a bit more detailed than planned. Also probably a bit more B.S.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Logic

[Logic]

Since I am in full-on FM mood...

 

We should play a high line with pressure on the opposition as soon as they leave their third. Our fullbacks should continuously offer the overlap. If the opposition has one upfront only the centrebacks and one midfielder in front of them stay deep. If the opposition has two upfront the deepest lying midfielder should drop in between the centrebacks creating a 3 at the back when we have the ball.

 

Stevie (or the player taking on his role) should be told to move into the areas making it possible to create triangles between Suarez and Carroll. Those three should stick close to each other when in possession. Suarez should be told to drop off the nr 9 taking up a bit deeper and wider positions. Carroll (or his replacement) should be told to keep the opposition centrebacks occupied by constantly moving between them.

[schmuckdonald]

None of that will happen.

[Epic Swindle]

Worrying that after so long we're still struggling to find Stevie's best position. If Lucas was fit I'm not sure I'd have him in CM and that probably means Suarez up front on his own, which he clearly struggles with.

[Logic]

Worrying that after so long we're still struggling to find Stevie's best position. If Lucas was fit I'm not sure I'd have him in CM and that probably means Suarez up front on his own, which he clearly struggles with.

The position Stevie played most of the time under Rafa is his best position. He should be played as a cross between a second forward or as an advanced attacking central midfielder.

[Epic Swindle]

I like him off the right.

[Logic]

I like him off the right.

He's good there but I don't think he enjoys it enough to be as good as possible there. He wants to be involved more.

[Epic Swindle]

That's a different argument though. Shouldn't be about where he enjoys it more. As his stamina diminishes I'd prefer him in a free role but then you have to look at who Suarez dovetails better with.

[Logic]

That's a different argument though. Shouldn't be about where he enjoys it more. As his stamina diminishes I'd prefer him in a free role but then you have to look at who Suarez dovetails better with.

As his stamina diminishes the less effective he is in the wide right role he played the first season under Rafa (IIRC).

 

Suarez and Carroll work fine together. Carroll keeps both centrebacks occupied and more narrow which opens up the space Suarez likes to work in. It's not about putting on the Best XI players you have but about the best team. And we don't have anyone who can do the same as Carroll.

[Epic Swindle]

So where does Stevie play when it's Luis and Andy then?

[Logic]

So where does Stevie play when it's Luis and Andy then?

Carroll between the centrebacks, Suarez drops deeper and/or goes wide. Stevie takes up deeper positions (advanced central midfield or deep-lying forward) but tries to link the two former together.

 

Imaging a triangle pivoting around Carroll.

[Epic Swindle]

It can work yeah but I come back to Stevie's lack of stamina in CM to really press and close down when we're not just dominating possession. I think off the right he's not expected to bomb up and down like a winger and can cut inside and still link up with the front men. Plus he's the best crosser in the side.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Epic Swindle

[Bailo]

Get more people in the box if we're going to cross it in there.

[RBM]

Get more people in the box if we're going to cross it in there.

 

Get shots on target, after actually shooting

[deacon]

For all the talk of lack of quality from wide areas, the problems mostly come from central midfield, make no mistake. Our central midfield this season since Lucas got injured has been Spearing, Adam, Henderson and a leggy Gerrard. 3 years ago it was mascherano, alonso and Gerrard.

 

3 years ago we had warriors in central midfield who could mix it against anyone. Now we have championship calibre players in the middle of the park, its enough to make you weep.

 

Fingers crossed Lucas comes back the same player. Adam, Spearing and Henderson should all be sold, they are never going to be good enough. Not even close.

 

I think most of us feared the worst when Lucas got injured, I feared our hopes of 4th ended that night he hobbled off, but never did I think it would be this desperate.