Hillsborough

[AE]

Auntie

 

 

 

EDIT

Another article here

Edited March 15, 2012 by AE

[Earl Hafler]

Read this on The Anfield Wrap earlier. " an unnamed officer " is like the rag's " onlooker ". Highly convenient.

[AE]

Read this on The Anfield Wrap earlier. " an unnamed officer " is like the rag's " onlooker ". Highly convenient.

 

 

You read the headline story and think "here we go again..." but the second article actually places it into context far better.

Of course for most idiots supporting other teams the context will be lost and it will be a case of here we go again with the same old lies and **** getting spouted about it.

 

Stuck the links in here as it could run for a few days in the headlines again (for good or bad)

[Woodsyla]

Read this on The Anfield Wrap earlier. " an unnamed officer " is like the rag's " onlooker ". Highly convenient.

I think that's missing the point slightly, what is clear from this is that the truth was not out there from the onset. All of the decisions made were made based on erroneous information. The fact that the bloke is unnamed doesn't detract from this and are we surprised that a senior police officer is blaming the fans and not the police for the tragedy.

 

What this reveals, to me, is what I already suspected, is that this wasn't a cover up that went to the very top. The Govt were told what they wanted to hear and acted accordingly.

[PhilM]

How much involvement would Merseyside police have had in this. Surely we can take it as read that the source of Merseyside Police would be Duckenfield's lot?

[dl2009]

This leaks smacks of protecting Thatcher. "It wasn't the Iron Bitch M'lud, the police told her it was the fans."

 

Fck me, just listened to the Beeb report and this "unnamed" officer says that "[he] is deeply ashamed of being a Liverpudlian as drunken Merseyside fans caused the disaster, just as they caused the deaths in Heysal".

[JRC]

How much involvement would Merseyside police have had in this. Surely we can take it as read that the source of Merseyside Police would be Duckenfield's lot?

Exactly. This is supposition that precedes the Taylor Report.

[Earl Hafler]

I think that's missing the point slightly,

 

I haven't missed the point. That's what i chose to comment on.

[Stanley Leisure]

It's designed to put those asking questions on the back foot.

 

The platform for their agenda is being laid.

[dl2009]

It's designed to put those asking questions on the back foot.

 

The platform for their agenda is being laid.

 

Yup, a sort of 'do you really want to open Pandora's box?' tactic.

[Earl Hafler]

Yup, a sort of 'do you really want to open Pandora's box?' tactic.

 

They they don't know their enemy, do they ?

[Woodsyla]

I haven't missed the point. That's what i chose to comment on.

That's fine, you kick those tyres while the car is on fire.

 

They wanted hooligans so the police gave them hooligans, far more important than the identity of the source. The police stuck together and gave the Govt the response it wanted to hear.

[smithdown]

What this reveals, to me, is what I already suspected, is that this wasn't a cover up that went to the very top. The Govt were told what they wanted to hear and acted accordingly.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this. I reckon it was pretty much the definition of a cover-up.

 

There's some very strange coincidences in the personnel around and about, such as for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Waddington,_Baron_Waddington

 

SYP were calling in all favours. Can well imagine Kenneth Oxford played the game to back his mates up.

[Earl Hafler]

That's fine, you kick those tyres while the car is on fire.

 

 

Wind it in.

 

Stever Rotheram

 

“I did say there was likely to be a backlash against what we had achieved following the Parliamentary debate –maybe it's started?”

 

The families deserve so much better than this. They deserve the truth in its entirety in keeping with the promises made to them.

[Frosty Jack]

How surprising that these particular files, a handful from thousands, via "unnamed" police source, that infer Thatcher had no culpability, have been leaked selectively, whilst the vast majority of documents (all those relating to S.Yorkshire Police) are still withheld without adequate explanation.

Meanwhile Pravda/BBC describes these incomplete files as "Hillsborough: The Thatcher papers" which is a quite deliberate manipulation of the narrative; as when the main tranche is released, likely after Thatchers death, those with the most to lose know only full well that they'll have nowhere near the impact. (Predictably, pseudo-liberal frauds, the Guardian, are getting in on this too.)

The BBC need to give a full apology, surely.

[Earl Hafler]

How surprising that these particular files, a handful from thousands, via "unnamed" police source, that infer Thatcher had no culpability, have been leaked selectively, whilst the vast majority of documents (all those relating to S.Yorkshire Police) are still withheld without adequate explanation.

Meanwhile Pravda/BBC describes these incomplete files as "Hillsborough: The Thatcher papers" which is a quite deliberate manipulation of the narrative; as when the main tranche is released, likely after Thatchers death, those with the most to lose know only full well that they'll have nowhere near the impact. (Predictably, pseudo-liberal frauds, the Guardian, are getting in on this too.)

The BBC need to give a full apology, surely.

 

 

Lead story on the news, accompanied with a statement from Peter Carney refuting the allegation.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Earl Hafler

[Frosty Jack]

Lead story on the news, accompanied with a statement from Peter Carney refuting the allegation.

 

Just watched it. Their website is the main culprit, it's poor at the best of times, but the most popular and of course, permanent.

 

Besides for us, this is a major battleground on FOI, and you would think the media would be more supportive.

[Epic Swindle]

BBC hires liars. Utter scum for that. Will justify the stance of the worst sort of ignorant t***s on this subject.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Epic Swindle

[Epic Swindle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9146419/Andy-Burnham-Hillsborough-one-of-greatest-injustices-of-20th-century.html

 

Some of the comments underneath just shows that despite all the facts you'll never change the view of a prejudiced minority.

[Swipe]

Prejudiced is the key word. They don't even care about the truth. It's just a stick they use to beat a hated rival with. They're that thick they can't see some things go beyond football rivalry.

[Epic Swindle]

The new documents, obtained by BBC Radio 4's The World at One, suggest Merseyside police also potentially contributed to misleading slurs that the families of victims have spent 23 years trying to correct. They include a note addressed to Thatcher dated 20 April 1989 headed "Merseyside Police views on Hillsborough" and marked "Confidential".

 

It contains an account of what was said to be a long-planned meeting between the No10 adviser and the then Merseyside chief constable Sir Kenneth Oxford and other senior officers from the force. According to the note, Oxford said: "A key factor in causing the disaster was the fact that large numbers of Liverpool fans had turned up without tickets. This was getting lost sight of in attempts to blame the police, the football authorities, etc."

 

Another officer – who was not named – was said to have directly blamed the supporters. "One officer, born and bred in Liverpool, said that he was deeply ashamed to say that it was drunken Liverpool fans who had caused this disaster, just as they had caused the deaths at Heysel," the note said.

 

Oxford, who died in 1998, was also said to have expressed concern at the way Liverpool's ground at Anfield had been turned into a "shrine" by grieving fans.

 

"He deplored the press's morbid concentration on pictures of bodies. He was also uneasy about the way in which Anfield was being turned into a shrine," the note said.

 

The note is initialled "MT", suggesting it was read by Thatcher, and the phrase "drunken Liverpool fans" is one of a number of passages underlined by hand.

 

Steve Rotheram, the MP for Liverpool Walton who last year spoke movingly in a Commons debate triggered by a petition that attracted more than 140,000 signatures and forced the government to reiterate that it would release all papers relating to the disaster, said that he believed the leak of the documents was "malicious".

 

"I am absolutely outraged, not only at the timing but the way someone has gone about this. They have picked a very selective document to leak. There are other documents I would love to have leaked. We have played by Queensbury rules, the panel have played by the rules and the families have done likewise," he said.

 

"Somebody has chosen to pick, out of the millions of documents, that particular aspect. Which, for me, is just reinforcing for some people the lies of nearly 23 years ago. I genuinely believe it's malicious, it's a nefarious act by somebody. If they wanted the truth to emerge, they needed to only wait a few more months for the independent panel to report." Margaret Aspinall of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, who lost her 18-year-old son James in the disaster, said Oxford's views were "appalling" but called for no further leaks before the panel's report in the autumn.

 

"The panel is there to scrutinise the documents and present a balanced report," she said. "It doesn't help the families of the victims, the survivors or the fans to have pieces of the jigsaw come out piece by piece – that is not how we will get to the truth."

 

Sheila Coleman of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign said she was "disgusted" with the views of Merseyside Police but not surprised. She said was also "very suspicious" of how the information was leaked.

 

"We find it a strange coincidence that this information is leaked only days after we found out the panel are not going to report until the autumn," she said.

 

http://www.guardian....+%28Football%29

 

To think we used to get called paranoid for thinking there was shadowdy figures at the highest level of both govt and media forcing a cover up. Disgusting.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Epic Swindle

[D.Boon]

A born and bred scouser ashamed of his own?

 

b******s.

[Redray]

Understand it was leaked selectively but the report, at behest of Government advisers at the time, seems to support the theory of an orchestrated cover up rather than now trying to suggest it was a factual report.

[aka Dus]

Makes me uncomfortable that the BBC 10 o'clock news reports the leaks and what the Merseyside Police said at the time. I doubt they mean to appear ambiguous and they mention what Taylor found but splashing the top lines of what Thatcher was told without an explicit comment juxtaposed that the official inquiry found the police procedures culpable, not the fans, is unhelpful.

[WillG]

 

Steve Rotheram, the MP for Liverpool Walton who last year spoke movingly in a Commons debate triggered by a petition that attracted more than 140,000 signatures and forced the government to reiterate that it would release all papers relating to the disaster, said that he believed the leak of the documents was "malicious".

 

"I am absolutely outraged, not only at the timing but the way someone has gone about this. They have picked a very selective document to leak. There are other documents I would love to have leaked. We have played by Queensbury rules, the panel have played by the rules and the families have done likewise," he said.

 

"Somebody has chosen to pick, out of the millions of documents, that particular aspect. Which, for me, is just reinforcing for some people the lies of nearly 23 years ago. I genuinely believe it's malicious, it's a nefarious act by somebody. If they wanted the truth to emerge, they needed to only wait a few more months for the independent panel to report." Margaret Aspinall of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, who lost her 18-year-old son James in the disaster, said Oxford's views were "appalling" but called for no further leaks before the panel's report in the autumn.

 

"The panel is there to scrutinise the documents and present a balanced report," she said. "It doesn't help the families of the victims, the survivors or the fans to have pieces of the jigsaw come out piece by piece – that is not how we will get to the truth."

 

Sheila Coleman of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign said she was "disgusted" with the views of Merseyside Police but not surprised. She said was also "very suspicious" of how the information was leaked.

 

"We find it a strange coincidence that this information is leaked only days after we found out the panel are not going to report until the autumn," she said.

 

This is the begining of "the truth" - and it's obvious that those responsible are just landing the first punch in the public arena.

 

I expect some damning evidence in the coming months and the powers that be will do everything to minimise the damage.

 

My heart goes out to the families, who are having the knife twisted YET AGAIN.