Financial Fair Play

[Logic]

MADRID (AP) - Spanish football clubs owe the government €752 million ($982 million) in unpaid back taxes, according to figures released Tuesday.

 

The United Left party says figures provided by the government show an increase of nearly €150 million ($195 million) in unpaid taxes over the past four years, with topflight clubs making up nearly half a billion euros ($653 million) of the overall figure. At least six top division clubs are already in bankruptcy protection.

 

The numbers were released after the United Left, a communist party led coalition, submitted a written request to parliament for the information.

 

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15875/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=qMt4Wm9O

[Rimbeux]

Same gig as over here, clubs believing with a lot of good reason that the government will go easy on them rather than lose votes from fans

[growler]

Aren't one of the reasons rangers and Portsmouth were in trouble because of the tax man?

 

This and football first for creditors rule is ridiculous.

 

If that's how clubs want to play, they should have to pay all other creditors cod. Remove the whole credit issue then.

 

It's why I don't get that Newcastle fans were cheering Shepard and booing the current lad. He's probably saved them from the brink.

[Rimbeux]

My link

 

 

So the level above the PL and every level below are now adopting FFP. Seeing as this will directly affect every club in the PL in some way, either through UEFA ambitions or in forward planning, why shouldn't the PL go the whole way and introduce it too?

 

I don't don't they will, still believe there is a lot of denial and belief loopholes and bearable punishments will be the way of things

[Bailo]

It's a sham and will never work.

[Rimbeux]

Cos?

[Bailo]

Clubs will find back-alley ways of getting money in and UEFA don't have the balls or will to follow it to the degree it'll need.

 

It's like saying you'll end tax avoidance in one fell swoop - these mega-owners made their money avoiding detection from Govts, UEFA and their accountants won't scare them.

[Rimbeux]

Clubs will find back-alley ways of getting money in and UEFA don't have the balls or will to follow it to the degree it'll need.

 

It's like saying you'll end tax avoidance in one fell swoop - these mega-owners made their money avoiding detection from Govts, UEFA and their accountants won't scare them.

It's not the same as tax avoidance, and that's without getting on to if the only way to amass a fortune is by fooling the law. It's a closed market, there are rules to join in, it's not as if there is another place to go live and work in this context, yet.

 

On UEFA, they have a history of being hard line. Fenerbache were booted out of the CL this season and failed trying to take UEFA Through the courts. Swiss team Sion and their FA similarly. You could even go back over 20 years and look at the five year ban English clubs had.

 

In this specific area, club licensing, there have been bans even under the previous/current regulations requiring solvency, think of Portsmouth, Mallorca in recent years, Rangers next season, this actually happens.

 

France and Germany already have FFP in their top leagues, it has the support of the clubs association, it's not an unpopular system, the Championship vote was 21 to 3. It remains to be seen how effective it will be and what sanctions ae imposed, but I'd back UEFA to be more hard line than the FA any day. In reality there are small number of clubs in danger and the overwhelming majority safe and in favour.

[Logic]

Cos?

I seriously doubt UEFA will have the balls to do anything other than fine teams that don't comply. Which is completely useless as the teams that will ignore FFP are those with wealthy owners willing to throw money away.

[Rimbeux]

I seriously doubt UEFA will have the balls to do anything other than fine teams that don't comply. Which is completely useless as the teams that will ignore FFP are those with wealthy owners willing to throw money away.

Based on what precedent? What's gone before suggests the opposite

[épieur]

It's not the same as tax avoidance, and that's without getting on to if the only way to amass a fortune is by fooling the law. It's a closed market, there are rules to join in, it's not as if there is another place to go live and work in this context, yet.

 

On UEFA, they have a history of being hard line. Fenerbache were booted out of the CL this season and failed trying to take UEFA Through the courts. Swiss team Sion and their FA similarly. You could even go back over 20 years and look at the five year ban English clubs had.

 

In this specific area, club licensing, there have been bans even under the previous/current regulations requiring solvency, think of Portsmouth, Mallorca in recent years, Rangers next season, this actually happens.

 

France and Germany already have FFP in their top leagues, it has the support of the clubs association, it's not an unpopular system, the Championship vote was 21 to 3. It remains to be seen how effective it will be and what sanctions ae imposed, but I'd back UEFA to be more hard line than the FA any day. In reality there are small number of clubs in danger and the overwhelming majority safe and in favour.

 

How does this tally with the received lore of "it's cool to be cynical and assume UEFA and/or FIFA and/or The Man are corrupt, incompetent or spineless in all matters without regard for the actual state of affairs"?

 

Disappointing post, Rimbeux. I expected the party line.

[Bailo]

How does this tally with the received lore of "it's cool to be cynical and assume UEFA and/or FIFA and/or The Man are corrupt, incompetent or spineless in all matters without regard for the actual state of affairs"?

 

Disappointing post, Rimbeux. I expected the party line.

Christ, you're a smug prick.

[Falconhoof]

Manchester City don't appear to be quaking in fear of FFP.

If they can spend on that scale then everyone else is free to spend what they want.

[Boca]

Manchester City don't appear to be quaking in fear of FFP.

If they can spend on that scale then everyone else is free to spend what they want.

 

 

They've just signed a six year deal with Nike which, along with the sham stadium naming deal, help them comply.

[Falconhoof]

They've just signed a six year deal with Nike which, along with the sham stadium naming deal, help them comply.

 

Help them comply ? They aren't even close to complying with FTP, surely ?

 

How much have they spent ?

 

Or is that all wiped clean right when they are established at the top with a healthy group of young players to trade with ?

 

Sorry for all the questions. It's just a bit baffling tbh.

[CarraLegend]

UEFA has suspended Besiktas from European competitions for one year and fined them 200,000 euros due to financial problems at the Istanbul club, Turkish media reported on Wednesday.

 

The move came after UEFA scrutinised Besiktas' accounts in the second and third quarters of 2011 and ruled that they breached articles of the ruling body's financial fair play regulations.

 

Shares in Besiktas tumbled more than 9 percent on the news to 4.29 lira.

 

Besiktas Chairman Fikret Orman and the club's lawyers attended a meeting with UEFA's disciplinary committee for a second time on Wednesday after the club was earlier warned about its financial status and high debt.

 

Orman said Besiktas would appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) regarding the ban, but added he was not very optimistic about a ruling in favour of the 13-times Turkish champions.

 

"We will defend the club's rights until the end, and will appeal to CAS as the first step," Levent Erdogan, a lawyer and club board member told Turkey's Dogan news agency.

 

"I think it's a dramatic decision, and it will hit us pretty badly, but there's nothing we can do," he added.

 

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restofeurope/102294/default.aspx

[floyd]

"Mr Platini, up for discussion next is, Manchester City and Chelsea"

[Farmer's Tan]

CITY AND CHELSEA HAVE BOTH SPEND AROUND HALF A BILLION POUNDS ON PLAYERS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, IT WILL BE HARD FOR THEM TO GET WITHIN TE RULES BUT I DON'T SEE EITHER OF THEM STOPPING SPENDING OBSCENE AMOUNTS OF MONEY, cHELSEA WILL BE REPLACING A FEW PLAYERS WHO ARE COMING TO THE END OF THEIR CAREERS AND I BET IT WON'T BE ON THE CHEAP.

 

f***ing caps..

[Rich Gobey]

Mallorca , Rangers, Sion, Portsmouth, Beskitas, Fenerbache.

 

Not exactly the big names that UEFA might fear losing from their comps though, really.

 

When and if they take down one of the big Spanish, Italian or English clubs it might show they mean business.

[Rimbeux]

Mallorca , Rangers, Sion, Portsmouth, Beskitas, Fenerbache.

 

Not exactly the big names that UEFA might fear losing from their comps though, really.

 

When and if they take down one of the big Spanish, Italian or English clubs it might show they mean business.

 

Well the biggest three draws are in no danger of failing FFP, they generate more than enough money to balance the books with lots to spare, the two money teams in the PL could easily be replaced by teams as big and bigger in profile in the PL. The CL has survived absences by AC, Juve and will live without Inter next season, the CL is as big as the clubs

[Rich Gobey]

Well the biggest three draws are in no danger of failing FFP, they generate more than enough money to balance the books with lots to spare, the two money teams in the PL could easily be replaced by teams as big and bigger in profile in the PL. The CL has survived absences by AC, Juve and will live without Inter next season, the CL is as big as the clubs

 

Probably nothing to worry about then.

 

I just couldn't see the relevance of those clubs mentioned to the CL.

[Rimbeux]

Probably nothing to worry about then.

 

I just couldn't see the relevance of those clubs mentioned to the CL.

There are lots of people who assume UEFA will just roll over and fudge when faced with a decision, I suppose this is more that says otherwise

[Rich Gobey]

There are lots of people who assume UEFA will just roll over and fudge when faced with a decision, I suppose this is more that says otherwise

 

I have some optimism that UEFA will do what it can, i'm a little less optimistic that they will be able to cut through the obviscation that teams of lawyers and accountants will weave before them on a yearly basis. I fear they might just be playing hungry hippos for much of their time 'til they get worn out by it and give up.

[Rimbeux]

I have some optimism that UEFA will do what it can, i'm a little less optimistic that they will be able to cut through the obviscation that teams of lawyers and accountants will weave before them on a yearly basis. I fear they might just be playing hungry hippos for much of their time 'til they get worn out by it and give up.

 

 

I think it would have to be more fraud than smoke and mirrors, football clubs cant set up myriad divisions in low tax areas as a multi-national corporation could, so hiding payments and costs would be stepping over the line of the criminal law as in Italy a few years back.

[Molby]

I think it would have to be more fraud than smoke and mirrors, football clubs cant set up myriad divisions in low tax areas as a multi-national corporation could, so hiding payments and costs would be stepping over the line of the criminal law as in Italy a few years back.

 

 

that won't be the preferred method for the super rich clubs

 

 

it will be inflating revenue like City's preposterous stadium naming rights deal and accompanying regeneration package