Big Skrtel

[Chili Palmer]

wouldn't be too wrong saying that he is probably up there with Kompany when it comes to the best centre backs in the league atm. He's pretty dominant against all forwards.

[Beardsley]

He's ace. And he dosen't even do the hoofing anymore.

[Leo No.8]

Astonishing his improvement - couldn't have imagined him getting the best of Crouch aerially six months ago.

 

Attacking the ball so much more aggressively in the air now, decision making is far better. Just a massive improvement and he deserves all the credit he's getting.

[épieur]

He is overtaking agger atm in the defensive department. Both as solid as you'd like, but Skretl comes out looking imperious more often than not.

 

Still think Agger is our most important centreback, but Skretl is certainly not letting him rest on his laurels for that acclaim.

[Cooldude]

He is also our greatest creative force

[épieur]

Think his performances need to be weighed over a longer period of time though. Centrebacks are judged on the bottom-level of performance far more than further upfield and Skretl showed a shockingly low level last season under both managers. Basically only delivered when Agger came in to steady the defence. Needs to show over a longer period of time that he is not just riding a wave of confidence at the moment and that he is growing less susceptible to having his confidence and composure shaken.

[JonShar]

I think most of it comes down to playing on the right side of the field.

[_00_deathscar]

I think most of it comes down to playing on the right side of the field.

 

And not playing next to Carragher (except today).

[yellow jumper]

Lesson for all those moaning about this and that player now.

[_00_deathscar]

Lesson for all those moaning about this and that player now.

 

We can't hold on to Downing and Carroll hoping they come good.

 

For every Lucas and Skrtel, there are plenty of N'gogs and Poulsens.

 

More importantly, none of those players (hell, combined) cost £55m.

[yellow jumper]

It's 5 months football. I agree downing has less excuse, given age, but the point with Skrtel is as much about how and with whom he's bring used, and the confidence that's given, as it is him just being a better footballer.

 

I don't think we've helped either player much. And I'm not one who thinks downing's done as badly as some say. Don't see much differnce between the quality of his and henderson's games, for example, both so-so. Didn't see yesterday, but even then going off the reports it sounds like he produced one of the few moment of quality.

[kop205]

Lesson for all those moaning about this and that player now.

 

It really, really isn't.

 

It is a lazy argument.

 

Skrtel had shown some decent form for us prior to his struggles last season and there was certainly an argument that Carragher needed easing our first.

 

I don't see any such mitigation for the likes of Downing and Carroll.

 

I'll look at each player individually and in their own context, rather than just hoping they might come good because someone else who was s*** for a while looks as though they have come good.

[_00_deathscar]

It's 5 months football. I agree downing has less excuse, given age, but the point with Skrtel is as much about how and with whom he's bring used, and the confidence that's given, as it is him just being a better footballer.

 

I don't think we've helped either player much. And I'm not one who thinks downing's done as badly as some say. Don't see much differnce between the quality of his and henderson's games, for example, both so-so. Didn't see yesterday, but even then going off the reports it sounds like he produced one of the few moment of quality.

 

Henderson is very young so is given much more leeway. Besides which, Henderson, technically, already looks the complete part. He's got it all technically. He just needs more experience, physical presence and confidence. Two of the first three can be worked upon, the latter comes from within.

 

Downing was never up to much technically, but had his plus points (pace, crossing). His confidence is shot and he just generally seems ball-less. Look at someone like Shelvey. He arses up a pass, demands the ball back to try again. That's the kind of mentality that breeds winners. Not "Ah f*** I arsed up me last cross. Best play it safe and pass it to Glen who may do something with it."

 

Having spent years at clubs like Boro and Villa, this should have been Downing's big moment - he's got his (potentially) last career move to a top club. Start playing like it. Instead, he plays like he's made it BECAUSE he's got his big move. FFS Riera contributed far more.

 

Carroll is just a different beast altogether. In addition to lacking it technically, he just seems to not know what to do. On a football pitch. At all. N'gog showed more prowess and nous. N'gog wasn't very good, but you put Carroll's body/physique into N'gog and he'd have been half a player. Also, he cost peanuts.

 

As much as we would like to pretend otherwise, the fees CANNOT be ignored. No, it isn't the player's fault, but that doesn't mean the players are exempt from poor performances because the fee is not dictated by them.

 

They should start seeing it in the way that a manager of the calibre of Kenny Dalglish had the confidence to pay an obscene amount for me. I should start repaying that faith.

 

 

And how long is too long to wait?

 

As I said, we cannot hold on to Carroll and Downing in the faint hope they come good.

Edited January 15, 2012 by _00_deathscar

[yellow jumper]

It really, really isn't.

 

It is a lazy argument.

 

I don't see any such mitigation for the likes of Downing and Carroll.

 

Making final judgments after 5 months is just as lazy. As is not seeing any mitigation. You may be proved right on them ultimately, but I struggle to see many of the popular, condemnatory responses to either player as being on the reasoned and reasonable side of the argument.

 

At this point in time I'm more inclined to point finger at management as I think both players were bought without that much clarity of planning. The way they've been used suggests as much. They've both looked players in the Premiership and internationally in recent seasons.

[kop205]

Making final judgments after 5 months is just as lazy. As is not seeing any mitigation. You may be proved right on them ultimately, but I struggle to see many of the popular, condemnatory responses to either player as being on the reasoned and reasonable side of the argument.

 

At this point in time I'm more inclined to point finger at management as I think both players were bought without that much clarity of planning. The way they've been used suggests as much. They've both looked players in the Premiership and internationally in recent seasons.

 

Downing has been around for the best part of ten years now and what we are seeing now is the player he has looked like for the majority of that time and that most of us feared we were getting.

 

I'm not saying there is no mitigation, not am I making a final judgement, I'm just saying that using Skrtel as some sort of precedent for why Downing might come good is b******s given the vastly differing circumstances surrounding them.

[yellow jumper]

I'm not saying Skrtel is any more of a precedent than the many other players who go on to prove detractors wrong. He is though an example of a decent player, unfairly maligned, who's now found form and confidence.

 

I disagree with you about downing and I imagine most fair minded Boro and villa supporters would too. He's not a world beater, but than neither's Martin Skrtel.

 

I think he needs more than 20 games, in a more settled side and position, and a clearer idea about how we use him. All the things Skrtel has benefitted from recently.

[JonShar]

I'm not saying Skrtel is any more of a precedent than the many other players who go on to prove detractors wrong. He is though an example of a decent player, unfairly maligned, who's now found form and confidence.

 

I disagree with you about downing and I imagine most fair minded Boro and villa supporters would too. He's not a world beater, but than neither's Martin Skrtel.

 

I think he needs more than 20 games, in a more settled side and position, and a clearer idea about how we use him. All the things Skrtel has benefitted from recently.

 

Thing you're bang on here sir.

[épieur]

The most surprising transformation for me has been his heading ability. He looked so weak in the air last season, he fecking closed his eyes meeting headers half the time and was beaten far too often.

 

Now he wins them all and is a real threat at corners too. How does that even happen?

[Mike]

The most surprising transformation for me has been his heading ability. He looked so weak in the air last season, he fecking closed his eyes meeting headers half the time and was beaten far too often.

 

Now he wins them all and is a real threat at corners too. How does that even happen?

 

Steve Clarke

[Swan Red]

Steve Clarke

 

has to be

[Epic Swindle]

Immense again, solid, composed, turned into a real leader.

[Cheesecake]

yep, great performance at the back and suprisingly he seems to have developed a knack of getting on the end of things in the oppo box too whether it be headers or the shot tonight that brought a top save from Hart. He is unrecognisable from the player from last season. Player of the year so far for me, ahead of Bellamy and Lucas.

[Gerrardrules]

Back to his best again.

[pipnasty]

He looks f***ing huge now - the player we all hoped he would be.

[schmuckdonald]

Him and Agger fantastic again tonight.