Footballer's Pay since 84-85

[aka Dus]

Interesting article on sporting intelligence (I assume that they are a kosher source again after all that unpleasantness exhibited towards them during the take over battle) using PFA documents they have seen showing the basic pay (not including bonuses or appearance fees) earned by its members.

 

The ratio between the top division and the second division in 84-85 was 1.61:1, now it's 5.51:1

 

 

Not surprisingly there is a spike in wage inflation each year that a new domestic deal kicked in. Would be good to see what the wage figures would be for the 2010-11 season when there was a new domestic and overseas rights deal.

 

It's interesting to see that in 2004-5 when there was a new domestic deal (albeit at much the same price as the 2001-2004 deal) and a new overseas rights deal, wages actually dropped 3% then grew again at a relatively slow rate in subsequent years until the new deal in 2007-08. So it could be argued that the anti-competitive move from the European Commission that saw the rights shared by Sky and Setanta reinflated the bubble just as it looked to have been leveling off over the course of that 2004 deal.

 

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/10/30/revealed-official-english-football-wage-figures-for-the-past-25-years-301002/

 

 

 

 

The main live broadcast TV packages (not including Match of the Day etc) from my own scratching around the internet:

92-93: £304m for 5 seasons

97-98: £670m for 4 seasons

01-02: £1.02b for 3 seasons

04-05: £1.024b for 3 season

07-08: £1.7b for 3 seasons

10-11: £1.78b for 3 seasons

 

International rights:

04-05: £320m for 3 seasons

07-08: £625m for 3 seasons

10-13: £1.4b for 3 season

 

Ah s****, I thought I was posting this in the general forum, please move it.

[Cam]

Hansen said when he retired in '91, as captain of a side that had won leagues & Euro cups (ie one of the top earners in one of the top paying clubs), he was on £2,000 a week.

 

Some of you guys have six figure salaries. Would your life be any better if you were earning that per week?

[The_MC]

Hansen said when he retired in '91, as captain of a side that had won leagues & Euro cups (ie one of the top earners in one of the top paying clubs), he was on £2,000 a week.

 

Some of you guys have six figure salaries. Would your life be any better if you were earning that per week?

 

Well if you believe the papers Hanson is now on 40k for every appearance on MOTD, so he can't moan about footballers getting daft wages.

 

The only way to control wages is a wage cap, otherwise wages will continue to shoot up and up. As long as billionaires are investing in football clubs and fans are buying merchandise and paying for sky there is no limit to the wage bills. Even if the wage cap was set at 150k, that would start to bring things into line eventually. At the rate we're going players are gonna be on 500k a week before long.

[aka Dus]

Wages will only be 'controlled' when the revenue inflation normalises - as seems to have happened between 2002 and 2005 ish, where the salary inflation slowed down (and even declined one season).

 

I think the clubs suspect that the next domestic and foreign rights deals will come in about the same level as the current deals - hence Ian Ayre's comments about individual club negotiating their own.

[Gunga Din]

FFP should in theory curb the wages now. I have no issues at all withthe wages outside the premier league. An average wage of £220k per year for example, for a career that will last 15 years max, i think is perfectly fair. but when you have players getting a mil a month in some cases, its just ridiculous, and if FFP rules are enforced, then i think we will see an end to teh obscene year on year rises

[Murphman]

I think top players deserve whatever people are willing to pay them, top golfers F1 drivers and tennis players earn just as much if not more as do musicians. I'd sooner see Gerrard on £150k per week than some c*nt of a chairman of a multi national, or oil magnate.

[Gunga Din]

I think top players deserve whatever people are willing to pay them, top golfers F1 drivers and tennis players earn just as much if not more as do musicians. I'd sooner see Gerrard on £150k per week than some c*nt of a chairman of a multi national, or oil magnate.

 

 

yes, but, its money going out of the game Murph, money you and i and every other person who goes puts in. Ticket prices are going up and up to keep up with players wage demands, entire generations of fans are being priced out, what used to be a weekly thing to go to the game with your dad or lad, is now becoming a once or twice a season treat. if we arent careful here, we could end up like American football, where the majority of the tickets are owned by businesses and corporates

[Sion]

Hansen said when he retired in '91, as captain of a side that had won leagues & Euro cups (ie one of the top earners in one of the top paying clubs), he was on £2,000 a week.

 

Some of you guys have six figure salaries. Would your life be any better if you were earning that per week?

 

 

If I was earning 100k a year i'd feel like a footballer, let alone 100k a week.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Sion

[Rimbeux]

Hansen said when he retired in '91, as captain of a side that had won leagues & Euro cups (ie one of the top earners in one of the top paying clubs), he was on £2,000 a week.

 

Some of you guys have six figure salaries. Would your life be any better if you were earning that per week?

 

It's another indication of how globalisation and technology has put an exponential kick on pay at the highest level, where those that get it are paid on the back of what they do in a 1000 markets rather than a handful.

 

100k a year v 100k a week is huge, you wouldn't be far off financial independence rather than a well paid employee.

[Cheesecake]

The modern salaries exist solely due to the TV money and the rise in commercialism. our total season ticket sales revenue (max 28m) wouldnt even cover the annual salary for our midfielders let alone the entire squad.

 

Our wage bill last season was over 100m wasnt it? The 20m from shirt sponsorship, supposed 20m from kit manufacturers and other sponsorships arises as a direct result of team success, thats driven by the players and management team so its only right that they are suitably rewarded. Thats one side of the coin.

 

On the other, money from foreign TV rights is based on reputation built over many years but even that is shared equally with Wigan who havent ever played a competitive fixture outside of England, maybe I'm naive to think a larger share of that would result in a fairer deal for those who go to the game week in week out and that they could benefit from the goldrush but I doubt it would be used that way, much the same way that a new massive kit deal should lessen the burden on a fan struggling to justify spending £700 on a season ticket or £59 going to support the team against Chelsea. Again it should do but it wont. At the end of the financial year, fans are just backsides on seats and another source for the business of football to squeeze every penny it can out of. The demand is there and its outstripped supply in the case of LFC for decades, financially fans of LFC are victims of the clubs success. edit f*** all to do with salaries on the whole, just sick of how the game is all about the bottom line, money money money, corporate seats, and yes indeed prawn f***ing sandwiches.

Edited October 31, 2011 by DPD1973

[aka Dus]

You're right - wage inflation is completely to do with TV money. If the next deal is about the same as this one, then we might see some stabilisation in the growth of wages. They won't drop, however.

[Cheesecake]

You're right - wage inflation is completely to do with TV money. If the next deal is about the same as this one, then we might see some stabilisation in the growth of wages. They won't drop, however.

 

and neither will season ticket prices or prices for individual games. money to be milked from fans and all...regardless of how many millions are added to revenue from advertising/tv/shirts/kits/overseas rights etc etc.

 

"does my bottom line look big in this?"

 

[tv]Nah, Honey, you look great[tv]

Edited October 31, 2011 by DPD1973

[Stevie H]

yes, but, its money going out of the game Murph, money you and i and every other person who goes puts in. Ticket prices are going up and up to keep up with players wage demands, entire generations of fans are being priced out, what used to be a weekly thing to go to the game with your dad or lad, is now becoming a once or twice a season treat. if we arent careful here, we could end up like American football, where the majority of the tickets are owned by businesses and corporates

spot on.

[Murphman]

yes, but, its money going out of the game Murph, money you and i and every other person who goes puts in. Ticket prices are going up and up to keep up with players wage demands, entire generations of fans are being priced out, what used to be a weekly thing to go to the game with your dad or lad, is now becoming a once or twice a season treat. if we arent careful here, we could end up like American football, where the majority of the tickets are owned by businesses and corporates

 

 

I couldn't agree more. But players astronomical wages are just a part of the process, as turnover and profits increase the players wages reflect this, ticket prices going up is not solely down to wages, not by any means.It's a truly global game now, the real money is being made through television and selling shirts. The gate takings will have less and less of an impact as China, India and the Far East develop. A ticket for a top match will become gold dust but it's not just down to the players wages. Messi gets paid a kings ransom not least because of the shirts he sells with his name on the back and the pay per view receipts he generates. I don't begrudge him his money, he's the best at what he does in the world, and it makes a nice change to see an industry where the workers getting their fair cut, nobody pays to watch the chairman.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Murphman

[Rimbeux]

I couldn't agree more. But players astronomical wages are just a part of the process, as turnover and profits increase the players wages reflect this, ticket prices going up is not solely down to wages, not by any means.It's a truly global game now, the real money is being made through television and selling shirts. The gate takings will have less and less of an impact as China, India and the Far East develop. A ticket for a top match will become gold dust but it's not just down to the players wages. Messi gets paid a kings ransom not least because of the shirts he sells with his name on the back and the pay per view receipts he generates. I don't begrudge him his money, he's the best at what he does in the world, and it makes a nice change to see an industry where the workers getting their fair cut, nobody pays to watch the chairman.

 

 

The ticket prices dont have to be so high, the simple fact that they are selling isn't necessarily the smartest thing long term, but hardly any club will say they have enough money, especially next to the demands of the fans for the best players. There are clubs like Sunderland, where they are not going to attract a few thousand every week from outside their main catchment, who are struggling to fill their ground, but turn their fire on pubs showing the games rather than their pricing model or what they offer for the money. Too many clubs have an attitude where the fan experience is about being treated poorly in s*** facilities, and paying over the odds for anything from water to wotsits, with everything being more expensive the next year and everything in a worse state. One thing they realise at Sunderland, is that if the ground has 5k empty every game, it's more likely to get worse than better as more people wonder if it's worth it.

[Murphman]

The ticket prices dont have to be so high, the simple fact that they are selling isn't necessarily the smartest thing long term, but hardly any club will say they have enough money, especially next to the demands of the fans for the best players. There are clubs like Sunderland, where they are not going to attract a few thousand every week from outside their main catchment, who are struggling to fill their ground, but turn their fire on pubs showing the games rather than their pricing model or what they offer for the money. Too many clubs have an attitude where the fan experience is about being treated poorly in s*** facilities, and paying over the odds for anything from water to wotsits, with everything being more expensive the next year and everything in a worse state. One thing they realise at Sunderland, is that if the ground has 5k empty every game, it's more likely to get worse than better as more people wonder if it's worth it.

 

Aye. We're a diferent beast to Sunderland but as with all clubs large or small we'll hit a price ceiling, more so once the new ground is built. Revenues will continue to increase and match day receipts will become less and less a proportion of the turnover for the really big clubs.

 

Wayne's analogy is generally spot on albeit american clubs whether it be baseball or football (their's and ours) have a more captive audience given the size of the place. A corporate in the UK could switch their spending from Chelsea to Arsenal, Liverpool to Man Utd very easily if the prices became uncompetitive. It's much harder to switch from New York to say North Carolina.

 

Players wages will continue to rise, they'll hit a relatively much higher ceiling than ticket prices.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

as turnover and profits increase the players wages reflect this

 

This is b******s though isn't it?

Many clubs operate at a loss, precisely because of players' wages.

[Murphman]

This is b******s though isn't it?

Many clubs operate at a loss, precisely because of players' wages.

 

 

True. But they're trying desperately to stay in the game, those still at the top will be taking billions in 10 years or less, the ante is being upped as milions of new fans with cash to spend emerge in the developing world.

 

It's poker.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

True. But they're trying desperately to stay in the game, those still at the top will be taking billions in 10 years or less, the ante is being upped as milions of new fans with cash to spend emerge in the developing world.

 

It's poker.

 

It's not just about the top 7 or 8 clubs in the country. Wage inflation spreads right the way through the professional game. Preston North End won't be taking billions, ever.

 

Out of control player wages are a bad thing, you've called this wrong.

[Stevie H]

True. But they're trying desperately to stay in the game, those still at the top will be taking billions in 10 years or less, the ante is being upped as milions of new fans with cash to spend emerge in the developing world.

 

It's poker.

it's not, it's football. and the knock-on effect of insane wages at the top handful of clubs which have global tv deals and merchandise revenues to fund them is smaller clubs going out of business alongside continually rising ticket prices which price the average fan out of the game.

[Murphman]

It's not just about the top 7 or 8 clubs in the country. Wage inflation spreads right the way through the professional game. Preston North End won't be taking billions, ever.

 

Out of control player wages are a bad thing, you've called this wrong.

 

 

I've not said out of control player wages is a good thing. I said I don't begrudge the players whatever they can negotiate for themselves. And Preston will have to cut their cloth accordingly, so will Barca, Liverpool, Tranmere and Altrincham, bad business is bad business regardless of who you are, if you pay more than you make long term you'll implode. Not the players call.

 

it's not, it's football. and the knock-on effect of insane wages at the top handful of clubs which have global tv deals and merchandise revenues to fund them is smaller clubs going out of business alongside continually rising ticket prices which price the average fan out of the game.

 

 

Well there'll be a point where you'll struggle to fill a 60000 plus stadium every week if the prices get too high, it'll be market driven, it's happening now. There will be an elite, like there is now, the massive clubs with huge following and the toys owned by billionaires, the gap will widen too. It's not good but it's a fact.

 

If Liverpool are one of the super clubs in 2020 I'll be happy, if we win the league or the european Cup I'll be ecstatic, when our skipper picks up big ears for the 10th time I won't give more than a cursory glance at the smaller clubs. That's life as it is I'm afraid, the smaller clubs will continue to operate at their level on the money they generate. No doubt a fair few will become feeder clubs, it's a changing landscape. I'm not happy with it but it's not the fault of the players and their wages.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

I've not said out of control player wages is a good thing. I said I don't begrudge the players whatever they can negotiate for themselves.

 

Alright you slippery c***. I don't begrudge the players either but I think the wage inflation should be stopped.

 

As for the rest of your post, yeah the market will sort it out. The market sorts everything out in the end. Hooray for the market.

Edited November 1, 2011 by John

[Rimbeux]

I've not said out of control player wages is a good thing. I said I don't begrudge the players whatever they can negotiate for themselves. And Preston will have to cut their cloth accordingly, so will Barca, Liverpool, Tranmere and Altrincham, bad business is bad business regardless of who you are, if you pay more than you make long term you'll implode. Not the players call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The current thinking in the whole of football is unsustainable, it's a bubble heading for a crash as the growth in costs are outstripping the growth in revenues, propped up with faith in what will come in tomorrow, huge debt and vast amounts of private money not expecting a return. Things like FFP and the wages to turnover rules in the Football league are part of a solution, but the still short term nature means the clubs will hike everything going as high as they can, including tickets, until it bites back. Germany seem to have a more long term view on how they operate and the consensus and rules in place to support it.

[boohog]

Increased exposure and ability to watch all the games on the telly

Reduction in interest in lower leagues

Flow of money increasingly shifts to premier league (exacerbated by overseas income which almost exclusively goes to premier league)

Weakening in quality / competition of lower leagues

Reduction in number of non-league clubs

Fewer opportunities for youth to play competitive football

Reduced pool of professional/semi-professional football players

Weakened 'shop window' filter for premier league players to find best players

= worse standard of football

[Gunga Din]

Increased exposure and ability to watch all the games on the telly

Reduction in interest in lower leagues

Flow of money increasingly shifts to premier league (exacerbated by overseas income which almost exclusively goes to premier league)

Weakening in quality / competition of lower leagues

Reduction in number of non-league clubs

Fewer opportunities for youth to play competitive football

Reduced pool of professional/semi-professional football players

Weakened 'shop window' filter for premier league players to find best players

= worse standard of football

 

 

yep.

 

I think moving all premier league football to Saturday night, Sunday and Mondays would be the way forward, leaving the football league and non league with saturday at 3pm