Spain

[Tosh]

Ok, they can be criticised for being a bit tippy-tappy but they demolished Scotland last night and as was said: difficult to see past them getting to the final next summer

 

HOW have they - and Germany to a degree - managed to pull off such a great trick of producing players who don't need to be built like Andy Carroll because the have the skill and comfort on the ball to play with it? To pass, to move, to give team-mates an option. Sure, the team has a strong Barcelona spine and last night was like watching them, but that's despite players from other clubs being in the side - Silva, Villa, the fullbacks, etc. They are good both with and without the ball

 

If you put an Arsenal spine in the England team (impossible I know but...) do you really think the rest of the players would fit around that, play to the style, have the skill on the ball etc to make it work? Not a chance. That's assuming that the England set up has the ability to identify and play to a style. Or, frankly, when you put a ManU spine in the England team (which happens often enough), the width, speed of attack, forward in numbers etc that they manage to produce is generally lacking entirely from the England squad

 

Are we simply back to the way the game is coached here from an early age so that size, power and fitness are valued so far above being comfortable on the ball and it's not to be given up lightly?

 

I'm sure I read something about a purge in Germany after a poor world cup (by their standards) whereby they did a root and branch reform of club training with a view to making a better German league and German team. Can you really imagine the FA doing that?

 

Until we do, we are playing in a league where all the opposition are doing fitness and stretching routines, eating and resting right while our lot are on the ale nightly and the like. In other words, will win nothing.

[yellow jumper]

found myself thinking silva might be the best player in the world last night. almost certainly getting carried away, but, still, his first touch is a thing of beauty.

[Rich Gobey]

There appears to be government intervention into how football is being run, it's breaking news on the BBC.

 

I think most of your post is reminiscent of the kind of pointless hand wringing that goes on in the press, but not the public.

 

Llorente is at least as big as Andy Carroll and so is Klose.

 

As for the Spanish being 'a bit tippy tappy' - what the hell does that mean?

[Tosh]

There appears to be government intervention into how football is being run, it's breaking news on the BBC.

 

I think most of your post is reminiscent of the kind of pointless hand wringing that goes on in the press, but not the public.

 

Llorente is at least as big as Andy Carroll and so is Klose.

 

As for the Spanish being 'a bit tippy tappy' - what the hell does that mean?

You missed my point. Llorente is big but he's sort of an exception in the team AND he's far more comfortable on the ball than pretty much ALL the England strikers (Bent, our Andy, Defoe, Crouch (good touch for a big man....)etc).

 

"Tippy tappy" - sometimes over-complicating and missing an end product

 

If raising an issue for discussion is handwringing, fine. But I wonder is it only that because nothing changes??

 

found myself thinking silva might be the best player in the world last night. almost certainly getting carried away, but, still, his first touch is a thing of beauty.

To be fair, most of them have a first touch that make you want to shoot Dirk Kuyt

[Rich Gobey]

You missed my point. Llorente is big but he's sort of an exception in the team AND he's far more comfortable on the ball than pretty much ALL the England strikers (Bent, our Andy, Defoe, Crouch (good touch for a big man....)etc).

 

"Tippy tappy" - sometimes over-complicating and missing an end product

 

If raising an issue for discussion is handwringing, fine. But I wonder is it only that because nothing changes??

 

Andy Carroll has played about twice for England, you didn't mention Rooney...

 

"Tippy tappy" - sometimes over-complicating and missing an end product - I think you miss the point. It's part of the their game plan, to never surrender possession.

[Gunga Din]

i think this Spain side is the best international side ever. Better than Brazil 1970 vintage

[Rich Gobey]

i think this Spain side is the best international side ever. Better than Brazil 1970 vintage

 

Me too.

 

I think their 2nd and 3rd eleven are probably the 2nd and 3rd best sides in the world too.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Rich Gobey

[charlie clown]

I couldn't really give a monkey's about England's ability to compete. The FA are all about extending & exploiting the commerical value in the national team and nothing to do with wanting to improve the team's ability to win anything. And whenever they do make half-hearted attempts to do anything on the footballing side it's always 15 years behind curve and with the wrong personnel. They're approach is based on a model that is no longer working, fronted by some egg & chips has-been and not seen through to completion anyway.

 

In about 5 years Trevor Brooking will send Alan Pardew to investigate Spanish football and then implement a youth football school of excellence based on Del Bosque's methods which will be expected to produce world beaters in 2034.

 

 

When it comes to international football I just like watching the teams that play great football. I don't mind England winning but I hate England generally because of all the ridiculous hype and unrealistic heightened.

[Rich Gobey]

I couldn't really give a monkey's about England's ability to compete. The FA are all about extending & exploiting the commerical value in the national team and nothing to do with wanting to improve the team's ability to win anything. And whenever they do make half-hearted attempts to do anything on the footballing side it's always 15 years behind curve and with the wrong personnel. They're approach is based on a model that is no longer working, fronted by some egg & chips has-been and not seen through to completion anyway.

 

In about 5 years Trevor Brooking will send Alan Pardew to investigate Spanish football and then implement a youth football school of excellence based on Del Bosque's methods which will be expected to produce world beaters in 2034.

 

 

When it comes to international football I just like watching the teams that play great football. I don't mind England winning but I hate England generally because of all the ridiculous hype and unrealistic heightened.

 

 

Just about nail on the head

[johngibo YPC]

I've thought for a while about going to watch Spain play, especially with the lack of European football we have now

I presume they will play a couple of friendlies before the Euros that will be easy enough to get tickets for?

If someone else can organise this and invite me that would be great

[muleskinner]

found myself thinking silva might be the best player in the world last night. almost certainly getting carried away, but, still, his first touch is a thing of beauty.

 

 

He's a good player but there are 2 in that Spain side who are better than him and at least 2 others in La Liga. Not to mention Luis Suarez.

[Hassony]

I've thought for a while about going to watch Spain play, especially with the lack of European football we have now

I presume they will play a couple of friendlies before the Euros that will be easy enough to get tickets for?

If someone else can organise this and invite me that would be great

 

they're playing england sometimes soon aren't they

[Tosh]

Andy Carroll has played about twice for England, you didn't mention Rooney...

 

"Tippy tappy" - sometimes over-complicating and missing an end product - I think you miss the point. It's part of the their game plan, to never surrender possession.

Ok, add Rooney

 

And England's "game plan" is?? That's my point, there doesn't seem to be one at the top, nor the players to execute one, nor the players/coaching to be able to implement one. FFS, we have Stuart Pearce as the U21 coach!

[Damian_de]

In about 5 years Trevor Brooking will send Alan Pardew to investigate Spanish football and then implement a youth football school of excellence based on Del Bosque's methods which will be expected to produce world beaters in 2034.

 

 

HOW have they - and Germany to a degree -

Re: the Germans... they have been quite open about the investment in coaching of young kids by UEFA qualified, high quality coaches. It all stems from there.

 

After that, they also reap the benefit of less money sloshing around most of the Bundesliga clubs who therefore look to bring through young players.

 

Also, clear progression from u19-u21-senior side - including playing the same system. Having a system which carries through age groups is also part of the Spanish model (and Liverpool these days)

 

Sounds simple, of course it is much more complex than that, but that's the essence of it.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Damian_de

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

 

 

 

When it comes to international football I just like watching the teams that play great football. I don't mind England winning but I hate England generally because of all the ridiculous hype and unrealistic heightened.

that's why I watch the tournys - to see good teams playing good football & to see a few players I otherwise wouldn't know about.

[Earl Hafler]

I think it all stems from childhood. Wanting to play a match rather than spend an hour practicing passing with the other foot, close control etc.

At International level for years now, selection has been based on who you play for and how much your worth ( including marketing ). Parker not selected whilst he was at West Ham earlier in the season - did he suddenly become a bad player, the returned to being a good one when he signed for Spurs ?

 

Football and the FA, much like horse racing and the BHA, is run badly and riddled to the core with corruption

[Rich Gobey]

Ok, add Rooney

 

And England's "game plan" is?? That's my point, there doesn't seem to be one at the top, nor the players to execute one, nor the players/coaching to be able to implement one. FFS, we have Stuart Pearce as the U21 coach!

 

Sorry, I inferred that they were successful in spite of their tippy tappiness.

 

England do have a plan, it's just as C Clown says, it's hoplessly outdated.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

I think it all stems from childhood. Wanting to play a match rather than spend an hour practicing passing with the other foot, close control etc.

At International level for years now, selection has been based on who you play for and how much your worth ( including marketing ). Parker not selected whilst he was at West Ham earlier in the season - did he suddenly become a bad player, the returned to being a good one when he signed for Spurs ?

 

Football and the FA, much like horse racing and the BHA, is run badly and riddled to the core with corruption

Was the same with Crouch, nowhere near the England team, joined us, suddenly a regular (and a excellent scoring ratio). Does he get near it now? Genuine question since I paid no attention to England's qualifiers

[Raj]

I've thought for a while about going to watch Spain play, especially with the lack of European football we have now

I presume they will play a couple of friendlies before the Euros that will be easy enough to get tickets for?

If someone else can organise this and invite me that would be great

 

They're playing England at Wembley on 12th Nov.

I am gonna try and get tickets. Want one if I get them?

[johngibo YPC]

They're playing England at Wembley on 12th Nov.

I am gonna try and get tickets. Want one if I get them?

 

Well maybe. I was thinking of somewhere a bit more exotic than North london though

Fancy Costa Rica away?

[stressederic]

Silva's 2nd goal last night was top quality.

[Nebraska Red]

what I like about Spain is that they stick to their game plan, even if things are not going their way for 15-20 minutes(which doesn't happen that often)

 

They retain possession of the ball, pass it all over the park, go back and reset when needed, hardly any hoofs upfield even when the ball is with their center backs. The Scottish players were dragged all over the pitch yesterday, yet to their credit, they did not resort to clattering the Spanish players.

 

Germany play a similar way, but they have more power and strength in their side and look lethal on a counter attack.

 

I watched the Brazil game yesterday and they looked awful at times. Ronaldhino was the focus of their attacking play and he's way past his best.

[Raj]

Well maybe. I was thinking of somewhere a bit more exotic than North london though

Fancy Costa Rica away?

 

Well im going to see Melbourne Victory in Dec if you wanna come.

 

Germany play a similar way, but they have more power and strength in their side and look lethal on a counter attack.

 

I dont think they play in a similar way, although I agree that they are immense on the counter attack

[Woodsyla]

Are we simply back to the way the game is coached here from an early age so that size, power and fitness are valued so far above being comfortable on the ball and it's not to be given up lightly?

My view is yes this is a big part. I think it's about being comfortable receiving the ball under pressure. I'd argue that only 2 or 3 of our players are happy receiving the ball when they are marked. I'd say the 24 of the spanish squad are.

 

So when we are playing average sides our players get the time and space to play, and importantly, the ball. Against the better sides they receive the ball in dangerous positions and keep it, we constantly give the ball up.

 

We need to ingraine it into our kids that a first touch is not trapping the ball on the spot, it's about moving the ball into a position to perform the action that you have already decided on before you received the ball.

 

Our kids are taught to win matches not to play football IMO.

[BG]

Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Busquets, Alonso is just a ridiculously good selection of midfielders. Don't think a rest of world squad would have 5 that good.