Just back from the match

[Gunga Din]

didnt bother with the post match pints, (sorry Kev), was met with the pleasant surprise that forum poster Grabiner has his new season ticket seat about 10 seats away from me. Anyway, the match itself, i thought we started really wel, stating the obvious i know, they should have been down to 10 men, that was one of the worst pens i have ever seen, but after we went one up we really controlled it and i was expecting Sunderland to be going in at half time needing snookers. but as long as it stayed just the one they had a chance. was difficult to see why the Carroll goal was disallowed, but even so, we had enough of the ball to have been further ahead at the break.

 

And then the 2nd half, it was like collectively during the break we forgt how to pass the ball. Adam was getting swamped in midfield, Lucas was uncharacteristically poor, Carroll was left isolated and never really got going, and all of a sudden we were on the back foot. We seemed to lack leadership on the park, is it just me or does Carra not make a good captain? no one there to inspire us, Downing did his best to lift things, Adam wasnt afraid to try things, and there were plenty of plus points to take and the new boys played really well, although Henderson seemed a bit over awed.

[New York Red]

  On 13/08/2011 at 19:08, Gunga Din said:

didnt bother with the post match pints, (sorry Kev), was met with the pleasant surprise that forum poster Grabiner has his new season ticket seat about 10 seats away from me. Anyway, the match itself, i thought we started really wel, stating the obvious i know, they should have been down to 10 men, that was one of the worst pens i have ever seen, but after we went one up we really controlled it and i was expecting Sunderland to be going in at half time needing snookers. but as long as it stayed just the one they had a chance. was difficult to see why the Carroll goal was disallowed, but even so, we had enough of the ball to have been further ahead at the break.

 

And then the 2nd half, it was like collectively during the break we forgt how to pass the ball. Adam was getting swamped in midfield, Lucas was uncharacteristically poor, Carroll was left isolated and never really got going, and all of a sudden we were on the back foot. We seemed to lack leadership on the park, is it just me or does Carra not make a good captain? no one there to inspire us, Downing did his best to lift things, Adam wasnt afraid to try things, and there were plenty of plus points to take and the new boys played really well, although Henderson seemed a bit over awed.

 

Your point about Carra is really well taken Wayne. I thought the same thing. All I could hear was him shouting over everyone, but he isn't a leader at all. No inspirational qualities.

 

Charlie Adam could be a good captain given some time.

[Billy Dane]

Impressed with Enrique and Downing played really well first half. Downing and Adam faded in the second but were the two who looked most likely to create something once Suarez had gone off. Too early to judge, but I must admit I'm getting a bad feeling about Carroll, he reminded me of Heskey at times today - standing outside the box watching us attack and being bossed by Wes Brown- hopefully we are still trying to find a way to play to his strengths.

 

His disallowed goal in the first half was due to a clear push in the back on the defender.

[Swipe]

  On 13/08/2011 at 19:19, le2red said:

Impressed with Enrique and Downing played really well first half. Downing and Adam faded in the second but were the two who looked most likely to create something once Suarez had gone off. Too early to judge, but I must admit I'm getting a bad feeling about Carroll, he reminded me of Heskey at times today - standing outside the box watching us attack and being bossed by Wes Brown- hopefully we are still trying to find a way to play to his strengths.

 

His disallowed goal in the first half was due to a clear push in the back on the defender.

 

Not sure the push was that clear. Wee bit unlucky i thought.

[Clay Davis]

We stop knowing how to pass when teams decide to press us high up the pitch. Its been the same for years.

[Swipe]

  On 13/08/2011 at 19:28, Clay Davis said:

We stop knowing how to pass when teams decide to press us high up the pitch. Its been the same for years.

 

Better centre half on the ball could help with that. It's a must.

[Dan]

Carroll isn't being utilised properly, or wasn't second half anyway. It needs sorting. Lucas was rusty and general fitness was lacking throughout. Not sure why Flanno was preferred to Kelly.

 

There were positives though; mainly Downing and Enrique. The latter is solid as f***. Nothing got past him.

 

Good to meet you too Wayne! We'll defo have that beer soon.

[Maldini]

More of a nudge but they're usually given, it was great control and a great finish. Loads seem to be giving him stick but I thought he did alright, if one of those headers had gone in he'd have been the hero. We didn't play poorly in the second half because of Carroll, he did his job, the midfield went missing.

 

I thought Flanagan was very poor, caught wandering for their goal and gave the ball away too much. Henderson did well in the first half but went AWOL in the second. The most worrying thing about the second half for me was how often they won headers and second balls in midfield, they were getting into the space between midfield and defence way too easily.

 

Enrique defended very well but I was disappointed he didn't contribute more to the attack, think he only got forward once in the whole game.

 

Why do we always get jittery when we batter teams first half but don't put them away? I think you might be on to something with the leadership question Wayne

[Clay Davis]

  On 13/08/2011 at 19:29, Swipe said:

Better centre half on the ball could help with that. It's a must.

It thwarted Agger and we won't bring in someone better on the ball than him. They just need to learn how to pass and move in tight areas, and trust other player's control enough to fizz the ball around quickly. The last thing you want to do is hoof it.

[muleskinner]

Carroll was dropping deeper first half and doing decent work to retain possession, he may have been told to push higher up 2nd half.

 

Lucas should be captain in Gerrards absence, and if we have bid for Cahill then his price just went up 5 million today.

[Cam]

Enrique was secure. As the match went on he looked more & more lost about tactics (when to push forward, when to sit back) but that'll come. Agger unfairly had a few goes at him.

 

Adam was pretty good. I'd have prefered him to get a little further forward but he looked tidy. I know he's not a Gerrard-type to burst through but nor is he a sit & hold which is what he was doing more of today. It may be harsh but I think his presence is partially to blame for Lucas's poorness today.

 

Downing took a a while to get into it but looked great when he did. Some switching to the right is always good (gotta try something different) and he had an initial impact when he did. But then he stayed too long out there or in the centre behind Carroll.

 

I liked the look of Henderson early on. Busy, got involved and stayed wide. One of Kuyt's less endearing qualities is he'll stay back at rightback once he helps out rather than running on into the space... or he'll drift central. Henderson wasn't showing that and it was pleasing to see someone always available out wide. But that was for about the first half hour. After that he just went against everything I was praising him for.

 

For the others... Carroll was shockingly statuesque, Suarez knackered, Agger pretty good. I think the game was crying out for a Maxi.

[Bootle Buck]

I think the style of play Kenny is looking for is a little hard to judge right now. We played some great stuff towards the end of last season when Carroll was out. It seems when he plays we want to lump the ball to him without being patient and using the width. Downing looked good but we need to allow him to take defenders on and cause problems higher up the field. I agree with many that Carra is a liability with his need to sit too deep and to play ailmless flighted balls to no-one in particular. I'm not sure if I would have started all the new boys from the off today and maybe kept Suarez on the bench to cause problems later in the game. To be fair to Sunderland they battled for a point when it could have been ugly for them. Kenny will need to figure out his best players and style of play quickly before we end up falling behind the leaders.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Bootle Buck

[smithdown]

The second half has baffled us all but that first half was some very good football indeed - fast, mad angles, loads of movement - the kind of footy only maybe the mancs can play on one of their good days (like the second half last week as opposed to a sh*te first half against city).

 

Wasn't sure what Downing would do for us or how brave he is but he's a good lad isn't he?

 

Was happy with everything at half time, mebbes we needed a little dig in the ribs to show us how hard we are going to have to work but bar an excellent finish from Larson and a slip from the kid there I wouldn't have seen them score.

 

It's one of them.

Edited August 13, 2011 by smithdown

[Falconhoof]

  On 13/08/2011 at 19:08, Gunga Din said:

didnt bother with the post match pints, (sorry Kev), was met with the pleasant surprise that forum poster Grabiner has his new season ticket seat about 10 seats away from me. Anyway, the match itself, i thought we started really wel, stating the obvious i know, they should have been down to 10 men, that was one of the worst pens i have ever seen, but after we went one up we really controlled it and i was expecting Sunderland to be going in at half time needing snookers. but as long as it stayed just the one they had a chance. was difficult to see why the Carroll goal was disallowed, but even so, we had enough of the ball to have been further ahead at the break.

 

And then the 2nd half, it was like collectively during the break we forgt how to pass the ball. Adam was getting swamped in midfield, Lucas was uncharacteristically poor, Carroll was left isolated and never really got going, and all of a sudden we were on the back foot. We seemed to lack leadership on the park, is it just me or does Carra not make a good captain? no one there to inspire us, Downing did his best to lift things, Adam wasnt afraid to try things, and there were plenty of plus points to take and the new boys played really well, although Henderson seemed a bit over awed.

 

excellent summary. Would add that i'm not sure what Meireles added and I don't think he was happy with his performance, as we saw him 20-30 minutes after kick off getting away in his strange little mini clubman car. s*** haircut aswell. I've decided he's off.

[Sion]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:31, Tony Le Mesmer said:

excellent summary. Would add that i'm not sure what Meireles added and I don't think he was happy with his performance, as we saw him 20-30 minutes after kick off getting away in his strange little mini clubman car. s*** haircut aswell. I've decided he's off.

 

I got called pathetic for not much more than that.

 

Wayne is pretty much spot on though.

I'm agreeing with him far too much recently.

 

At the end of the day, Richardson should have been off and we'd here be talking about our easy 4-0 win and a Carroll hat-trick.

Corruption is the enemy.

[JonShar]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:35, Sion said:

I got called pathetic for not much more than that.

 

Well if you're referring to me, I actually called you pathetic (just today mind, not overall) for the following statements:

 

  Quote

Raul is a completely pointless player.

 

I blame Comolli for this strategy.

[Sion]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:41, JonShar said:

Well if you're referring to me, I actually called you pathetic (just today mind, not overall) for the following statements:

 

Raul is a pointless player in my view - I don't see him as adding anything to the team that others can't add and more.

 

I'm not sure about our transfer strategy of buying all PL-based players. Such as the £51m we spent on Carroll and Henderson. And Comolli has to take the majority of responsibility for that doesn't he?

 

Hardly pathetic.

[Kite]

Thought the key thing for a lot of the match was that the distance between Carroll and the next man was far, far too big far, far too often. It was the same pre-season and its a bit worrying that hasn't been sorted yet. Why Meireles was put wide when his best games have always been in the middle was really f***ing odd, compounded by putting Downing right and watching him strain to get his crosses in. Carroll then started dropping deeper too for some unfathomable reason. Lucas was very poor throughout he game, very sloppy, but really, do we need a Lucas in games like this? He should have been pulled, Adam at least has the dead ball arsenal to his game but Lucas offers little more than the standard set of skills for a player in that position. It's the old question of having too many men sitting back in home games. Much as I don't have the Aqualani love at all, think he's a girl's blouse who is far too inconsistent to be bothered with, that was a game where we could have afforded to ditch the earnestness of Lucas and gone with the unpredictable Aqualani to keep the chances following and Sunderland on the back foot. A playable Gerrard would have been the perfect godsend though. We at least needed someone who was on the shoulder of their backline towards the end of the game but there was no-one there pushing them back at all. It became painful watching the endgame play out, head in hands stuff.

 

Overall, bizarre set of decisions there in the end from the management team but we really should have won the game based on the chances we had falling our way. Hopefully it has clarified a few things and we'll now put that behind us and get better. It was the kind of game that might rattle confidence a bit - and it's certainly pissed me off no end - but at least having to play Arsenal next will mean a different type of test altogether and therefore should create a different mind set. Win it and we're away again.

[Mike]

  On 13/08/2011 at 20:07, Cam said:

Enrique was secure. As the match went on he looked more & more lost about tactics (when to push forward, when to sit back) but that'll come. Agger unfairly had a few goes at him.

 

Adam was pretty good. I'd have prefered him to get a little further forward but he looked tidy. I know he's not a Gerrard-type to burst through but nor is he a sit & hold which is what he was doing more of today. It may be harsh but I think his presence is partially to blame for Lucas's poorness today.

Downing took a a while to get into it but looked great when he did. Some switching to the right is always good (gotta try something different) and he had an initial impact when he did. But then he stayed too long out there or in the centre behind Carroll.

 

I liked the look of Henderson early on. Busy, got involved and stayed wide. One of Kuyt's less endearing qualities is he'll stay back at rightback once he helps out rather than running on into the space... or he'll drift central. Henderson wasn't showing that and it was pleasing to see someone always available out wide. But that was for about the first half hour. After that he just went against everything I was praising him for.

 

For the others... Carroll was shockingly statuesque, Suarez knackered, Agger pretty good. I think the game was crying out for a Maxi.

 

bold b******s.

[floyd the barber]

Honestly though we were excellent first half.....

2nd and we looled knackered...

Flanno will be dissapointed, he had a terrible 2nd half,he'll learn from this though....just felt it was a strange decision by Kenny to start him ahead of Kelly

Unless of course Kelly had a knock

[CarraLegend]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:47, Sion said:

 

I'm not sure about our transfer strategy of buying all PL-based players. Such as the £51m we spent on Carroll and Henderson. And Comolli has to take the majority of responsibility for that doesn't he?

 

Not for me, they're Kenny's players, the good or bad.

[Falconhoof]

carrol was denied service second half. Don't know what happened to Henderson and Downing 2nd half that stopped them getting down the line. Also both full backs were under orders to hold the line with Carra and Agger.

 

Not enough from out wide, shame for Carroll.

[JonShar]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:47, Sion said:

Raul is a pointless player in my view - I don't see him as adding anything to the team that others can't add and more.

 

I'm not sure about our transfer strategy of buying all PL-based players. Such as the £51m we spent on Carroll and Henderson. And Comolli has to take the majority of responsibility for that doesn't he?

 

Hardly pathetic.

 

Your rant was pathetic, now you're talking about it with some justification at least.

 

Raul is hardly pointless, he's just not much of a game changer.

 

I would imagine Kenny is pulling more strings than Comolli when it comes to who we buy.

 

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:51, CarraLegend said:

Not for me, they're Kenny's players, the good or bad.

 

Defo. This +1.

[Mike]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:52, Tony Le Mesmer said:

carrol was denied service second half. Don't know what happened to Henderson and Downing 2nd half that stopped them getting down the line. Also both full backs were under orders to hold the line with Carra and Agger.

 

Not enough from out wide, shame for Carroll.

 

carroll was outstanding in the first half

[Sion]

  On 13/08/2011 at 21:51, CarraLegend said:

Not for me, they're Kenny's players, the good or bad.

 

Probably a case of me not able to criticise anything Kenny does. But our transfer record is remarkably similar to Spurs' under Comolli, so i'm putting 2+2 together.