Safe standing bill launched in parliment

[Epic Swindle]

Don Foster MP, former Liberal Democrats sports spokesman, has launched a bid to allow safe standing to be introduced into football grounds in England and Wales. Speaking yesterday the Bath MP launched his Safe Standing Bill by telling Parliament that there was no evidence to show that properly designed standing areas were inherently unsafe.

The bill would give all football clubs "the freedom to build, or maintain existing, safe standing sections in their stadia if they choose" in an established framework of minimum safety criteria. MPs introduce so-called "10 Minute Rule" bills in order to draw attention to specific issues and they can eventually become law.

 

Surveys regularly show that nine out of 10 supporters believe they should be given the choice over whether they prefer to stand or sit. Safe standing areas in Germany have also proven to be a great success contributing to both improved atmospheres and cheaper ticket prices as more fans can be accommodated, thus lowering prices.

 

Opponents of standing areas in Britain often raise the spectre of the Hillsborough disaster. Foster acknowledged this but pointed out that the tragedy of 15th April 1989, and its devastating impact, was not caused by standing.

 

Foster said: "Lord Taylor's report into Hillsborough cited many reasons why the disaster occurred. The fact the crowd was standing was not one of those reasons. Rather, it happened as a result of gross overcrowding, a lack of concern for the safety and comfort of spectators, a lack of awareness of existing safety regulation, and the poor design of the old style terraces. The disaster happened because of a culture of negligence, not because standing is inherently unsafe."

 

http://www.fsf.org.u...-Parliament.php

 

Sensitive issue obviously but I have to agree with Foster's comments about negligence being a major factor. I'd welcome standing areas based on the German model, which in many respects are probably a lot safer than seating.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Epic Swindle

[New York Red]

No reason why this can't be done safely. Strict segregation, ticketing and exit points would do the job fine.

[Molby]

Don Foster MP, former Liberal Democrats sports spokesman, has launched a bid to allow safe standing to be introduced into football grounds in England and Wales. Speaking yesterday the Bath MP launched his Safe Standing Bill by telling Parliament that there was no evidence to show that properly designed standing areas were inherently unsafe.

The bill would give all football clubs "the freedom to build, or maintain existing, safe standing sections in their stadia if they choose" in an established framework of minimum safety criteria. MPs introduce so-called "10 Minute Rule" bills in order to draw attention to specific issues and they can eventually become law.

 

Surveys regularly show that nine out of 10 supporters believe they should be given the choice over whether they prefer to stand or sit. Safe standing areas in Germany have also proven to be a great success contributing to both improved atmospheres and cheaper ticket prices as more fans can be accommodated, thus lowering prices.

 

Opponents of standing areas in Britain often raise the spectre of the Hillsborough disaster. Foster acknowledged this but pointed out that the tragedy of 15th April 1989, and its devastating impact, was not caused by standing.

 

Foster said: "Lord Taylor's report into Hillsborough cited many reasons why the disaster occurred. The fact the crowd was standing was not one of those reasons. Rather, it happened as a result of gross overcrowding, a lack of concern for the safety and comfort of spectators, a lack of awareness of existing safety regulation, and the poor design of the old style terraces. The disaster happened because of a culture of negligence, not because standing is inherently unsafe."

 

http://www.fsf.org.u...-Parliament.php

 

Sensitive issue obviously but I have to agree with Foster's comments about negligence being a major factor. I'd welcome standing areas based on the German model, which in many respects are probably a lot safer than seating.

 

there's an (understandable) set of knee-jerking to come on this but I couldn't think of anything I'd want more in a new stadium than a gigantic standing Kop at one end, with a great big bar/food concourse at the back as part of a kind of open air terrace, with a decent chunk of pay on the day tickets and no allocated standing places (obviously) so that mates can be together and 'singing sections' will create themselves

[Flasher]

I hope a safe solution can be found to this, as it would be awesome. Standing on the Kop was amazing.

 

Edit: What was our capacity before converting the Kop to seating? Would we need to move??

Edited December 8, 2010 by Sugar Priest

[smithdown]

Why? Because of a survey?

 

Grounds are going to have sections rebuilt for this?

[Flasher]

Why? Because of a survey?

 

As opposed to choosing to do this for the hell of it?

 

 

Grounds are going to have sections rebuilt for this?

 

No, they will have the option to re-build sections.

 

Have i missed your points entirely?

[smithdown]

I don't see the point in the debate. Don't see the safety, commercial or political sense in it.

 

When does the Hillsborough Inquiry report back? Can't this all wait til after that?

[Flasher]

I don't see the point in the debate. Don't see the safety, commercial or political sense in it.

 

When does the Hillsborough Inquiry report back? Can't this all wait til after that?

 

Not sure, but timing would be better after, certainly.

 

For clarifaction though, are you against standing? You're confusing me (which isn't hard i admit)

[smithdown]

Don't see the point in going back, don't see clubs doing it regardless anyway.

[Gerry]

Why don't you see the point commercially? Surely you can fit signifcantly more people (safely) into a smaller space when standing? The commercial benefits are self-evident aren't they?

 

Don't people prefer to stand whilst watching a football match?

[amokop]

The fact that we all stand when we play european games or certain teams in the league when in the Kop now is surely more of a risk than a designated standing area. Agree with SD though that maybe we can wait until after the inquiry publishes its findings.

[Epic Swindle]

Surely you can fit signifcantly more people (safely) into a smaller space when standing?

 

Think it's unlikely we'll ever see that again to be honest. The safe model is based on one ticket one standing area. For example the German model has flip up seats. For me it's just about having the choice.

 

[David Hodgson]

there's an (understandable) set of knee-jerking to come on this but I couldn't think of anything I'd want more in a new stadium than a gigantic standing Kop at one end, with a great big bar/food concourse at the back as part of a kind of open air terrace, with a decent chunk of pay on the day tickets and no allocated standing places (obviously) so that mates can be together and 'singing sections' will create themselves

 

Be f***ing brilliant wouldn't it.

[Jarg Armani]

This would improve things 100%

 

Match day would be so much more fun if you could stand with mates.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

I'd like to see it happen too.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

There were a lot of causes of Hillsborough, standing was one but not the cause in itself. The bizzies and poor ground maintenance are high up on the list.

 

Safe standing isn't an impossibility

[Gunga Din]

i think personally safe standing is probably safer than seating. if anything goes wrong in the ground, i.e a fire, a bomb or whatever, it will be a lot easier to evacuate a stand onto the pitch if that stand has no seats in it

[kop205]

i think personally safe standing is probably safer than seating. if anything goes wrong in the ground, i.e a fire, a bomb or whatever, it will be a lot easier to evacuate a stand onto the pitch if that stand has no seats in it

 

Which rules out the German model based on the picture above then?

[aka Dus]

Maybe we shouldn't be the first to do it but it would be absolutely brilliant if we were. Would be such a powerful statement. I have stood a lot at matches in official standing areas in the last 10 years and can be brilliant. Crap too, mind you, in the open when it's raining.

 

However, the HJC would have to be centrally involved and it would feel unfair for them to have to deal with this issue until the inquiry is finished.

 

Which rules out the German model based on the picture above then?

 

Think that picture is misleading mate. At Dortmund, the standing area can be seated by drop in seating but when it's standing, there are no seats.

[Maldini]

It'll never happen for the same reason as grass won't be legalised, it'd take a politician with major power or a concerted effort by numerous politicians with power to take a stand and risk their career to get it through. These things don't happen these days unless there's a ground swell of support from the public and neither issue is understood well enough for that to happen.

[Murphman]

Maybe we shouldn't be the first to do it but it would be absolutely brilliant if we were. Would be such a powerful statement. I have stood a lot at matches in official standing areas in the last 10 years and can be brilliant. Crap too, mind you, in the open when it's raining.

 

However, the HJC would have to be centrally involved and it would feel unfair for them to have to deal with this issue until the inquiry is finished.

 

 

 

Think that picture is misleading mate. At Dortmund, the standing area can be seated by drop in seating but when it's standing, there are no seats.

 

 

Aye, hardest seats in football in Dortmund though. I have always welcomed the idea of terraces, we are starting from scratch and I'm positive it could be done safely, no doubt about it.

 

Better atmosphere, stand with your mates, more revenue for the club and affordable tickets too, everybody is a winner. however, i agree The Hillsborough enquiry needs to be concluded first.

[Metro]

I hope a safe solution can be found to this, as it would be awesome. Standing on the Kop was amazing.

 

Edit: What was our capacity before converting the Kop to seating? Would we need to move??

 

 

Wasn't it once 26,000, then reduced down to 12,000?

[Lanus]

I'm inclined to be against this.. but that's cause I'm not sure how they intend on making it safe. If it's do-able then it would be pretty cool. Also, there is no way in hell that we should be the first club to impliment it.

[kop205]

Think that picture is misleading mate. At Dortmund, the standing area can be seated by drop in seating but when it's standing, there are no seats.

 

Ah right.

 

Thought it looked a bit odd.

[Lanus]

i think personally safe standing is probably safer than seating. if anything goes wrong in the ground, i.e a fire, a bomb or whatever, it will be a lot easier to evacuate a stand onto the pitch if that stand has no seats in it

 

I tihnk this is why the safe seating could be more dangerous.