The players

[Conrad]

The players

 

There are plenty of threads on Roy Hodgson elsewhere on here at the moment. I wanted to focus on the players. It is an inevitable side effect of the car crash that is Hodgson managing Liverpool that the players’ performances are not the focus of ire that they perhaps might have been under somebody else.

 

As I’ve made clear elsewhere I want Hodgson out now.

 

But I do think that regardless of his multiple shortcomings we are overlooking the fact that from a playing point of view we are in serious decline.

 

This decline manifested itself last season under Rafa. It is being accelerated under Hodgson.

 

2 years ago we had a core of arguably 7 outstanding players

 

Reina

Hyypia

Alonso

Mascherano

Gerrard

Torres

Carragher

 

Now, only 4 of those 7 remain. Of those 4, Gerrard and Carragher are the wrong side of 30, and Torres is still shaking off a succession of injuries. I am confident he will get back to his first season form under a new manager, but Reina and Torres apart what else do we have?

 

A couple of promising but largely untried youngsters. One or two others. It’s a big worry. For me, the squad is in need of a bigger overhaul than at any time since the early part of the Souness era.

 

The reasons are various, the consequences of an expensively assembled academy producing no one of note in over a decade, the disastrous sale to the last owners, the failure in the last 3 years of his reign of Rafa to spend what money he had more productively (why is this being constantly glossed over?), and now Hodgson signing mediocre journeymen.

 

Anyone expecting a significant uplift in results with the sacking of Hodgson is going to be disappointed, although obviously they will improve.

 

I think we are looking at a 3-5 year rebuilding job.

[Ethan]

I think it would be a 1 game job to turn it round

 

 

Send the team out with a tactical plan and some self belief - these are top top players we have

[Billy Talbot]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:07, Ethan said:

I think it would be a 1 game job to turn it round

 

 

Send the team out with a tactical plan and some self belief - these are top top players we have

 

 

I sort of agree... it would take one decent win for most of the fear and lethargy to significantly dwindle.

 

edit : I couldn't help mention the manager

Edited October 18, 2010 by jr_ewing

[Sion]

The only players I would get annoyed at the club if they're sold are Torres, Dirk and Pepe. And even then as far as Torres is concerned if we got a massive fee that a quality manager could reinvest all of, I wouldn't be too upset.

I blame the players for last season and getting Rafa sacked.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Sion

[richwilks]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:07, Ethan said:

I think it would be a 1 game job to turn it round

 

 

Send the team out with a tactical plan and some self belief - these are top top players we have

 

Agreed, there are weaknesses which mean we aren't an automatic top 4 side now but the players we have make us a top 6 side IMO not a 19th place side.

 

The issue we have at the moment is the fact that we are sitting deep and letting teams dictate to us and then going hell for leather the last 15 minutes and getting nowhere.

 

We need to press higher, pick up the pace we play at and attack teams. 3 simple instructions which I believe would instantly get results. You don't need to have managed for 35 years to see that.

[smithdown]

We've got a lot of internationals in our squad, we're not Blackpool.

[DanielS]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:25, smithdown said:

We've got a lot of internationals in our squad, we're not Blackpool.

 

We certainly are not. They can string a series of passes together in an attacking, cohesive pattern. They also press and harry their opponents into surrendering possession. We are far, far from being Blackpool.

[Raj]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:04, Heighway 61 Revisited said:

The reasons are various, the consequences of an expensively assembled academy producing no one of note in over a decade, the disastrous sale to the last owners, the failure in the last 3 years of his reign of Rafa to spend what money he had more productively (why is this being constantly glossed over?), and now Hodgson signing mediocre journeymen.

 

 

No one had glossed over Rafas transfer mistakes, it was discussed for about a year on here. Thats why no one is talking about it now.

In relation to the academy, it has been poor for ages, but we are finally seeing some talented individuals coming through. Ayala, Kelly, Wisdom, Silva, Suso, Ngoo, etc.

 

We have an ok squad, which is more than good enough to finish in at least the same position as last season. The problem stems with the manager and his tactics

[Conrad]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:25, smithdown said:

We've got a lot of internationals in our squad, we're not Blackpool.

 

We should not be 19th in the table. My point though is that in relative terms we are in decline. Aside from Hodgson's ineptitude we are in decline.

 

We were in decline last season under a much better manager.

 

Sure, a new man will have us playing better instantly - how could he not - but even if Mourinho took charge tomorrow we're no longer a Top 4 side.

 

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:28, roegahnn said:

We have an ok squad, which is more than good enough to finish in at least the same position as last season. The problem stems with the manager and his tactics

 

Good enough to finish 7th I agree. A big rebuilding job if we want to compete in the champions league again

[Bailo]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:31, Heighway 61 Revisited said:

We should not be 19th in the table. My point though is that in relative terms we are in decline. Aside from Hodgson's ineptitude we are in decline.

 

We were in decline last season under a much better manager.

 

Sure, a new man will have us playing better instantly - how could he not - but even if Mourinho took charge tomorrow we're no longer a Top 4 side.

I agree in a sense, but the decline is down to two people and thankfully they've gone. This side scared people: Reina, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Aurelio, Masch, Alonso, Benayoun, Riera, Gerrard, Torres

 

Of those 11, 3 have left of their own accord and one bombed out for being a dick for a gross of ~£70m. We just haven't been able to replace them properly.

[D.Boon]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:33, Heighway 61 Revisited said:

We should not be 19th in the table. My point though is that in relative terms we are in decline. Aside from Hodgson's ineptitude we are in decline.

 

Agree with this. We have holes all over our squad which will require a lot of money to fix.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

The words 'asset stripped' have been thrown about recently, but its true. It has happened over a period of successive transfer windows whereby our investment in the playing squad was 'break even'. Essentially, we have stood still for a number of transfer windows (with free operating cashflow channeled towards debt service) and therefore we have regressed given that other teams have largely invested to some extent or another.

 

I do not expect large amounts of cash to be thrown at us, but 2 good transfer windows and a good manager and we will be back as contenders for the CL places next season. I suppose that has to be foundation/minimum of JWH's plan (as top 4 this season is out the window).

[Billy Dane]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:36, Jernau Morat Gurgeh said:

I agree in a sense, but the decline is down to two people and thankfully they've gone. This side scared people: Reina, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Aurelio, Masch, Alonso, Benayoun, Riera, Gerrard, Torres

 

Of those 11, 3 have left of their own accord and one bombed out for being a dick for a gross of ~£70m. We just haven't been able to replace them properly.

 

am I right in thinking we made a profit on all bar one of those players when we sold them?

[Bailo]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:48, le2red said:

am I right in thinking we made a profit on all bar one of those players when we sold them?

Alonso and Masch yes. Arbeloa I think we broke even on and Riera made a slight loss?

[Rimbeux]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:50, Jernau Morat Gurgeh said:

Alonso and Masch yes. Arbeloa I think we broke even on and Riera made a slight loss?

 

Did we make cash on Masch, not that it matters in the whole scheme of things, rather have the player

[Frosty Jack]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:44, Rory Fitzgerald said:

The words 'asset stripped' have been thrown about recently, but its true. It has happened over a period of successive transfer windows whereby our investment in the playing squad was 'break even'. Essentially, we have stood still for a number of transfer windows (with free operating cashflow channeled towards debt service) and therefore we have regressed given that other teams have largely invested to some extent or another.

 

I do not expect large amounts of cash to be thrown at us, but 2 good transfer windows and a good manager and we will be back as contenders for the CL places next season. I suppose that has to be foundation/minimum of JWH's plan (as top 4 this season is out the window).

 

Totally agreed.

[Bailo]

  On 18/10/2010 at 13:51, Rimbeux said:

Did we make cash on Masch, not that it matters in the whole scheme of things, rather have the player

Well, I'm going on the basis of £18m we paid for him (who knows what proportion of that was wages) and we sold him for £25m + add-ons I believe.

 

Considering from where we took him to where is was when he left, we didn't make enough.

[beejay]

The best hope we've got (other than the boot for RH) is the players ahem "influencing" the manager to change tactics and to stop putting square pegs in round holes.

 

Playing Meireles regularly in the middle will help. If he can be persuaded to field this team most weeks to play their natural game, we should be ok :

 

--------------------------------------Reina--------------------------------------------

 

Kelly..................Carragher................Agger......................Aurelio

 

..........................Meireles.........Gerrard..........Cole.........................

 

Johnson.......................................................................Babel

 

.................................................Torres...........................................

 

Impact Subs to come on regularly : Pacheco, Maxi, Ngog, Shelvey, Suso, Kuyt when fit

Edited October 18, 2010 by beejay

[sutty]

Carragher is finished.

[beejay]

  On 18/10/2010 at 14:23, sutty said:

Carragher is finished.

 

At right back maybe. I would prefer him at centreback to Skretl any day

[sutty]

  On 18/10/2010 at 14:58, beejay said:

At right back maybe. I would prefer him at centreback to Skretl any day

 

Don't agree

 

I'd play the 2 who played yesterday actually (under this manager's tactics certainly).

[Conrad]

  On 18/10/2010 at 14:23, sutty said:

Carragher is finished.

 

I fear we are close to that point

[Bigal]

What do people have against Skrtel?

[sutty]

  On 18/10/2010 at 15:09, Bigal said:

What do people have against Skrtel?

The fact he looks more dominant than he is.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

  On 18/10/2010 at 14:15, beejay said:

The best hope we've got (other than the boot for RH) is the players ahem "influencing" the manager to change tactics and to stop putting square pegs in round holes.

 

Playing Meireles regularly in the middle will help. If he can be persuaded to field this team most weeks to play their natural game, we should be ok :

 

--------------------------------------Reina--------------------------------------------

 

Kelly..................Carragher................Agger......................Aurelio

 

..........................Meireles.........Gerrard..........Cole.........................

 

Johnson.......................................................................Babel

 

.................................................Torres...........................................

 

Impact Subs to come on regularly : Pacheco, Maxi, Ngog, Shelvey, Suso, Kuyt when fit

 

Cole in centre-mid?