Is it time for a defensive overhaul....?

[floyd the barber]

For me, this is probably our worst set of defenders since the souness years...

 

Insua(still needs to learn,will be decent as back up),aurellio,skrtel,the greek...are really not good enough or are on the treatment table more often that not...

 

Johnson came in for big money, but really he is an awful defender...worse than Riise in my opinion, id also add that his distrubution is pretty crap with his only talent lying in his ability to beat players, his pace and that sometimes he is able to hit a lethal shot.....is that worth the money we paid?!?!? i dont think so......though im sure many will disagree with me

 

Carragher - well he can no longer be regarded as first choice....he is getting worse with each game.....his saving grace is that he is a scouser, he will put 100% in everygame....but its now not enough..

 

Agger - well hes one who should stay(maybe along with insua) and would be certain of a first team place..as long as he stays fit.....our one defender who seems a step above the rest for me..

 

I long for the days of a squad with babbel, hyypia,henchoz,riise

 

So for me we need 2 new center backs , a left back and a right back.......though ive no doubt after the heavy investment, Johnson will be first choice.. i just dont rate him.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

[Cheesecake]

Johnsons a better winger than he is a defender, he is probably our best attacking right sided player. Stick him right midfield either in a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2, same could be argued for Insua on the left as he is frankly w*** at defending, and we are also in posession of a bag of s*** attack wise on the left. Maybe the 3 CBs could cover our 2 attacking wingers and also lead to us not having to play 2 defensive midfielders every game. Put Masch in as the defensive mid, play SG and AA ahead of him and 2 forwards. Ditch Babel and the workhorse Kuyt and we might resemble a team of sorts, given we wont be buying anyone of note this summer anyway.

[surf]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

 

 

partly due to 2 defensive midfielders, a defensive right midfielder and a game approach that takes little risks in attack

 

 

[floyd the barber]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

 

Honestly feel thats more to do with how f`king good Reina is......

[New York Red]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

 

We conceded 18 in one season years back.

 

We need much better than what we have.

[Gunga Din]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

 

thats because we play most games with 6 defenders and have the best keeper in the league. individually we are very poor across the back 4

[Zoob]

Rafa's first season was the only one where we've conceded more league goals than this season, and in all his other seasons (other than this, and his first), we conceded less than 30 goals.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say our defence is as bad as it was under Souness, but I do agree that we no longer have the solidity, and stinginess our defence used to have. I don't think Johnson is the problem - he's not the greatest defender, but his strength in attack means he does more good than harm to the team. The problem is that our defence is collectively not good enough any more, which is partly why we've resorted to playing 2 defensive midfielders in too many games.

 

We've conceded far too many goals down our left hand side. Shows how solid and reliable Riise was, even if he did only have one foot he could kick the ball with. Same thing will happen next year if we don't get a decent left back in.

 

And unfortunately, the years of blood and effort seem to have caught up with Carragher. He's not like Hyypia - few read the game as well as Hyypia, so I don't really agree with those making the comparison between the two (i.e. saying he can play less games and still be as effective as Sami was). I think a comparison with Henchoz is more apt. And some defenders simply have a rapid decline once the years catch up with them. Any player with a bit of pace is going to target Carragher, and know they they can get past him, or end up with a free kick / penalty.

 

Although Agger - interupted by too many injuries - perhaps hasn't progressed as we would have liked, I still think he's class, but needs a quick centre back next to him.

 

Problem with all of this is that, yes, we do need a defensive overhaul. We certainly need another Centre-back and left back, but we also need another striker (even with the Serbian guy coming in) and we need a proper wide player...and the money for this is going to come from...

Edited April 30, 2010 by Zoob

[Sion]

Johnson and Agger are keepers. Carra probably won't be going anywhere. Need a quality CB and LB.

 

Sell Skrtel, keep Greek as 4th choice.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Sion

[Nebraska Red]

For pity's sake, it isn't the defense that needs to be overhauled.

 

We need to create chances and score goals to take the pressure off the defense.

 

How many times do we score 1 goal and then sit back and defend, all this does it put more pressure on the back 4 and mistakes are made.

 

We need more adventurous players in midfield and we need a forward who can be relied on t oplay regularly, and a back up who is more than an inexperienced kid.

 

We saw what Aquiliani is capable of in yesterday's game and we need to ditch the 2 holding midfield players set up.

 

All we need for the defence is a decent left back and a decent back up at center half, and the realization that Carragher is close to his sell by date.

 

By no means am I saying this is a good defense, but it's not the root cause of our problems.

[JonShar]

For me, this is probably our worst set of defenders since the souness years...

 

See, if you'd just said "I don't think our defence is good enough" then I'd have kept reading. It's nonsense like the above that stops people reading what could be a valid argument once the rhetoric is taken away.

[digs_nz]

Johnsons a better winger than he is a defender, he is probably our best attacking right sided player. Stick him right midfield either in a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2, same could be argued for Insua on the left as he is frankly w*** at defending, and we are also in posession of a bag of s*** attack wise on the left. Maybe the 3 CBs could cover our 2 attacking wingers and also lead to us not having to play 2 defensive midfielders every game. Put Masch in as the defensive mid, play SG and AA ahead of him and 2 forwards. Ditch Babel and the workhorse Kuyt and we might resemble a team of sorts, given we wont be buying anyone of note this summer anyway.

 

So, something like this?? (I made a few alterations to put torres up the front alone, since the idea is to use what we have)

 

I put the greek in the middle, since agger is left footed and carra plays on the right, but that might not be ideal..

 

It certainly is an.. interesting..... shape

 

Edited May 1, 2010 by digs_nz

[Zoob]

For pity's sake, it isn't the defense that needs to be overhauled.

 

We need to create chances and score goals to take the pressure off the defense.

 

How many times do we score 1 goal and then sit back and defend, all this does it put more pressure on the back 4 and mistakes are made.

 

We need more adventurous players in midfield and we need a forward who can be relied on t oplay regularly, and a back up who is more than an inexperienced kid.

 

We saw what Aquiliani is capable of in yesterday's game and we need to ditch the 2 holding midfield players set up.

 

All we need for the defence is a decent left back and a decent back up at center half, and the realization that Carragher is close to his sell by date.

 

By no means am I saying this is a good defense, but it's not the root cause of our problems.

 

You're kind of contradicting yourself there by saying the defence doesn't need to be over-hauled, but also saying we need a decent left back, another centre back, and Carragher is just about done. We do need to create more chances, and have better all round play. But one thing we've consistently been able to do over the last 3-4 seasons (and until this season) is hold onto a lead. We've only had two 1-0 wins in the league this year, and have probably lost the lead in more games this season than in all of our others under Rafa. This is due to collective and or individual failures in defence.

[Nebraska Red]

You're kind of contradicting yourself there by saying the defence doesn't need to be over-hauled, but also saying we need a decent left back, another centre back, and Carragher is just about done. We do need to create more chances, and have better all round play. But one thing we've consistently been able to do over the last 3-4 seasons (and until this season) is hold onto a lead. We've only had two 1-0 wins in the league this year, and have probably lost the lead in more games this season than in all of our others under Rafa. This is due to collective and or individual failures in defence.

 

 

I did say back up center half, but I see what you mean. I think our failiure to hold leads is as much down to poor midfield play as it is down to defensive mistakes. Our predictable play in games has left us vulnerable to late goals as teams see us offering little in the way of attacking play.

 

I really do think that our only problem area in defence is left back.

[Drexl]

For me, this is probably our worst set of defenders since the souness years...

 

 

Seem to remember the Kvarme-Babb-Matteo-Harkness back four in the late 90's. 98/99? That was pretty scary.

[John am Rhein]

How many times do we score 1 goal and then sit back and defend, all this does it put more pressure on the back 4 and mistakes are made.

 

what we need is to be able to sick back and defend and not concede a goal as a result - something we had the ability to do at times under both Gerard Houllier and Rafael Benitez

 

we certainly seemed to lose that some time during 2009, though - possibly earlier than the start of this season as it may have been masked by the fact we were actually attacking very well towards the end of 2008/09

[muleskinner]

We conceded 18 in one season years back.

 

We need much better than what we have.

 

1978/79 - 16 in 42.

[Conrad]

we've conceded 33 goals from 36 games

 

which is in part down to Rafa's excellence at organising the defence. Rafa could organise 4 Rigobert Songs into a well drilled defence.

 

Individually we are poorer than at any time since before the great summer of 99 when Hyypia and Henchoz arrived.

 

And left back is particularly galling given we have not just failed to improve on Riise but Riise is actually streets ahead of Insua, better than Dossena and neither slow nor injury prone like Aurelio.

 

We need two new left backs - a first choice and a back-up.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Heighway 61 Revisited

[Earl Hafler]

For pity's sake, it isn't the defense that needs to be overhauled.

 

We need to create chances and score goals to take the pressure off the defense.

.

 

Tried that at the start of the season and it left our defence wide open. Don't have the players for it.

 

We desperately need a centre back to replace Carra,