Borrell: Liverpool academy "was unacceptable"

[GWistooshort]

BBC website

Friday, 30 April 2010

 

Liverpool coach Borrell says academy 'was unacceptable'

By Sam Sheringham

 

Liverpool youth coach Rodolfo Borrell has revealed how surprised he was by the poor quality of the club's academy when he arrived at the club in 2009.

 

Borrell, who came with Jose Segura from Barcelona, believes it could take another two years before a player breaks through into the first team.

 

"The reality of what we found here was unacceptable," Borrell told BBC Sport.

 

The likes of Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen all came through the Liverpool ranks.

 

But since that crop of talented youngsters, the Liverpool academy has struggled to develop a regular supply of players ready for the demands of the Premier League and European football.

 

Striker Neil Mellor featured intermittently under Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez before being released to Preston, while full-back Stephen Warnock has gone on to play for England since leaving the Reds for Blackburn and then Aston Villa.

 

This season, Jay Spearing, Martin Kelly and Daniel Pacheco have been limited to occasional forays off the bench.

 

Benitez - who has signed highly rated Charlton midfielder Jonjo Shelvey, 18, and 15-year-old England youth international Raheem Sterling from QPR recently - says the club have a long-term plan to bring "British players with passion" to the club.

 

"(We want) players who you can feel what playing for Liverpool means to them," said Benitez,

 

"Shelvey is one of these and we have two or three names ready so we will try to do the best for the club.

 

"I was trying to sign Gareth Barry before and Glen Johnson was the same idea - we have this long-term plan in place and we will try to follow the plan."

 

Benitez has expressed his frustration at the lack of talent coming through and moves to restructure the youth structure began when former Liverpool winger Steve Heighway stepped down as academy coach in April 2007.

 

The club created a new position of academy technical manager, a post initially taken by former Ajax player Piet Hamberg before he was replaced by Segura in May 2009.

 

Borrell, who joined at the same time to coach the under-18s, said they have been working hard to introduce the practices that functioned to great effect at Barcelona's academy, which produced seven of the team who beat Manchester United in last year's Champions League final.

 

"The under-18s had no centre forward, no balance. They had no tactical level, no understanding of the game," said Borrell, who spent 13 years at Barcelona, where he worked with Cesc Fabregas and Lionel Messi.

 

"We are working hard, but you can't change things overnight.

 

"I think we have made a lot of progress over eight months, but we need to improve a lot more to get more players into the first team.

 

"I think if we keep working hard maybe in two years somebody can appear in the first team."

 

Liverpool's academy features players from Hungary, Iceland, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Portugal and Australia, but Borrell says the priority is to produce English players.

 

"When I arrived the first thing Rafa told me was that the biggest interest is to try to develop English players," he said.

 

"I agree - the best players to defend the Barca shirt are Catalan players, the best players to defend the Liverpool shirt are English players.

 

"The rest of the players who are not English, they must be massive, massive quality.

 

"We have to fight to make English players arrive. If in two or three years one of our players does make the first team, I think he will be English."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8611991.stm

[Zoob]

""The under-18s had no centre forward, no balance."

 

Lauri Dalla Valle?

[Epic Swindle]

He has a point until you remember some of the players scouted from abroad and given chances ahead of academy kids. I was watching Bruna and Saric for the reserves the other night and they looked like they'd won a trial in a competition.

[DanielS]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:09, Hansen said:

He has a point until you remember some of the players scouted from abroad and given chances ahead of academy kids. I was watching Bruna and Saric for the reserves the other night and they looked like they'd won a trial in a competition.

 

So Rafa would rather go to the expense of bringing youngsters in from abroad instead of looking to the academy? Is that what you are saying? Seriously?

[Crazy Horse]

These guys always say that when they're interviewed. It's an insurance policy.

[The Hitman]

The above is correct. I remember it being called a joke after Heighway left, the same with the next guy etc. etc.

Fact is,we haven't brought much through since Heighway,which is patently not good enough.

 

If we've got no dough,a half-decent youth academy is essential.

[Epic Swindle]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:16, Crazy Horse said:

These guys always say that when they're interviewed. It's an insurance policy.

 

Yep. Was just thinking that. It wasn't that long ago we won the youth cup two seasons running.

[Billy Talbot]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:18, Hansen said:

Yep. Was just thinking that. It wasn't that long ago we won the youth cup two seasons running.

 

That's true but their job is produce individual players - not winning teams.

[Epic Swindle]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:31, jr_ewing said:

That's true but their job is produce individual players - not winning teams.

 

True. Though it does prove the academy wasn't as clueless as Borrell is suggesting. How many of those players were given a chance? Two? Since then we've brought in numerous average kids from abroad, not to mention the likes of Degen who are bleeding the club dry. Surely the likes of Darby could have been used a lot more in that situation?

Edited April 30, 2010 by Hansen

[Zoob]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:31, jr_ewing said:

That's true but their job is produce individual players - not winning teams.

 

Indeed. The 2 teams that won the youth cup had no 'stand out' players - just some decent Championship level players (Threlfall, Spearing, Anderson, Hobbes), and others like Lindfield, who haven't even made an impact in the lower leagues 3-4 years later

 

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:38, Hansen said:

True. Though it does prove the academy wasn't as clueless as Borrell is suggesting. How many of those players were given a chance? Two? Since then we've brought in numerous average kids from abroad, not to mention the likes of Degen who are bleeding the club dry. Surely the likes of Darby could have been used a lot more in that situation?

 

In these dark days, your nonsense makes me feel slightly better

 

Degen bleeding the club dry? Darby used more? he's sub-championship level.

 

Edit: the reason more of our youth cup winning team(s) weren't given a chance was because they weren't good enough. Pretty simple really.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Zoob

[Tones]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:43, Zoob said:

 

 

Edit: the reason more of our youth cup winning team(s) weren't given a chance was because they weren't good enough. Pretty simple really.

 

It really is that simple. Some people believe if you give players a chance at the ages 18 - 21 they will make top class players. But if they dont get first team chances between those ages, they will become league 2 standard. That total nonsense. You may improve with more first team experience, but a lack of it doesnt change you from a Liverpool player to a player struggling to get a game at Darlington or Chester.

[diaspora]

The Independent last Saurday had an interesting article on the Youth Cup. essentially how many players from Youth Cup finals ever made it, we are no more worse at producing talent than others.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/sam-wallace-the-fa-youth-cup-final-may-be-as-good-as-it-gets--for-chelseas-youngsters-1954249.html

 

"Sam Wallace: The FA Youth Cup final may be as good as it gets for Chelsea's youngsters

For the youth players at Stamford Bridge a place in the Chelsea first team must seem as remote as John Terry retaining his 'Dad of the Year' title

The FA Youth Cup is regarded as just about the most prestigious trophy an aspiring teenage footballer in England can win, although for so many who play in that final their first taste of glory also turns out to be the last.

 

It is 18 years since the famous Manchester United youth team of 1992 won the trophy with Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Gary Neville and Nicky Butt in the side. A year later those players – minus Giggs but with an 18-year-old Paul Scholes in the team – lost the final to a Leeds United side that included many tipped for greatness.

 

Seventeen years on it is a salutary lesson that the Leeds youth team of 1993 – that beat a Manchester United team with four players who would go on to win a combined total of 295 England caps (and counting) – have only one alumni that most fans would remember. He is Noel Whelan and he never won an England cap. It is that which makes the final of the FA Youth Cup such a tantalising glimpse into the future. Some who look certainties to make it never do. Others emerge from relative anonymity to become top players. Producing top young footballers has always been a hit-and-miss process but it remains the game's ideal – the notion of a winning team of home-grown footballers. Preferably all of them with local accents.

 

On Thursday, the first leg of this season's FA Youth Cup final, now an Under-18 competition, takes place at Villa Park between Aston Villa and Chelsea. Two teams of bright young players who hope that 20 years from now it will be their name that stands out when the old teamsheets are examined.

 

Of course, a very small percentage of footballers make it to the highest level but the FA Youth Cup final has seen more than its fair share since 1993. Wayne Rooney, Jamie Carragher, Frank Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, Michael Owen, Michael Carrick, Joe Cole, Theo Walcott, Richard Dunne, Alan Smith, Phil Neville, Harry Kewell, Gareth Bale and Jack Wilshere have all played in an FA Youth Cup final.

 

It has not just been the preserve of the stars either, the likes of Gary Cahill, Luke Moore, Steven Sidwell, Tony Hibbert, Leon Osman, David Dunn, Martin Taylor, Peter Whittingham, Liam Ridgewell and Clinton Morrison have played in the final. The Middlesbrough academy's golden years of 2003 and 2004 – when they reached two FA Youth Cup finals – produced Adam Johnson but they also turned out solid pros like Chris Brunt, David Wheater and James Morrison.

 

Now the obstacles that stand in the way of a senior team place for the FA Youth Cup final class of 2010 are even greater. Not so much at Aston Villa, a club that has had some partial success with home-grown players. But more for the players of Chelsea for whom a place in the first team must seem as remote a prospect as John Terry retaining his "Dad of the Year" title.

 

This column has asked before how Chelsea's director of youth, Frank Arnesen, justifies such enormous expense signing players to the club's academy with so little obvious returns in the first team. This week will be Chelsea's second FA Youth Cup final in three seasons but what is the point of producing outstanding youth sides if so few of the kids ever get a chance in the senior team?

 

From the 2008 Chelsea FA Youth Cup side that lost the final to Manchester City, only Gaël Kakuta (four first-team appearances), Miroslav Stoch (four) and Patrick Van Aanholt (two) have made any impression at all. Kakuta shone briefly against Wolves in November and barely played again. Stoch is on loan to Steve McClaren's FC Twente. The Dutch defender Jeffrey Bruma (three first-team appearances) is young enough to be part of this season's team.

 

For those Chelsea players who hope that Thursday's game and the second leg five days later will be the stepping stone to a place at Stamford Bridge it is hardly the most encouraging precedent.

 

For City's players on that day in 2008, the news has been little better. Of that team only Dedryck Boyata and Vladimir Weiss (now on loan at Bolton Wanderers and creator of their second goal against Portsmouth on Saturday) have made any impression. The same goes for Liverpool who have made it to three of the last four FA Youth Cup finals including last year. From the 2006 and 2007 teams, only Jay Spearing (six first-team appearances) and Stephen Darby (five) have made an impression.

 

Of all the clubs it is Arsenal, last year's FA Youth Cup winners, who have given players from their youth team a chance. Jack Wilshere is on loan at Bolton but he has made seven first-team appearances. As well as Wilshere, Craig Eastmond (seven), Francis Coquelin (four), Henri Lansbury (four), Sanchez Watt (three), Thomas Cruise, Kyle Bartley, Jay Emmanuel-Thomas (on loan at Doncaster), Gilles Sunu (all one) have all featured.

 

In its 57 years the FA Youth Cup final has never guaranteed the players who have featured in it that they will have a professional career. Usually only one or two are good enough to make it. Rooney played in the 2002 Everton youth team that reached the final and after him the most successful player from that side is Steven Schumacher, now at Crewe Alexander.

 

For the boys who play this week, the worry is not whether they win the final but whether they will ever get the chance to prove themselves beyond that. Chelsea do not even play their kids in the Carling Cup. So if they win this venerable old trophy over the next nine days, the question for them will be: what next?

[Billy Talbot]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:38, Hansen said:

True. Though it does prove the academy wasn't as clueless as Borrell is suggesting. How many of those players were given a chance? Two? Since then we've brought in numerous average kids from abroad, not to mention the likes of Degen who are bleeding the club dry. Surely the likes of Darby could have been used a lot more in that situation?

 

 

Borell's just saying that the quality of player required for the academy to function correctly weren't there - and in that way he's correct - otherwise they would have made it into the 1st team. It's not about them being given a chance is it? It's about them being good enough to compete with potential transfers for places in the 1st team squad. As it stands, the manager sees transfers as less risky than promoting the kids, which says something considering he's having to balance the books.

 

I agree with hindsight Degen has been a total waste of everyones time and money - especially when Darby was already at the club as would have been as useful. Although, if you take the position that Darby was never going make it here anyway - Degen was worth a punt - he might have worked out. Although surely anyone could see he's a tart with just a cursory glance. And it's not like Darby has made Degens signing look like bad business - Degen's done that all by himself.

[Atticus Finch]

  On 30/04/2010 at 12:59, Zoob said:

""The under-18s had no centre forward, no balance."

 

Lauri Dalla Valle?

 

Presumably that was why he was called back from the reserve squad at Melwood to stay with the under 18s - remember all the grumbling at the start of the season about that?

[Kahnee]

  On 30/04/2010 at 12:59, Zoob said:

""The under-18s had no centre forward, no balance."

 

Lauri Dalla Valle?

 

Falls over a lot

[kop205]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:09, Hansen said:

He has a point until you remember some of the players scouted from abroad and given chances ahead of academy kids. I was watching Bruna and Saric for the reserves the other night and they looked like they'd won a trial in a competition.

 

Ah, Bruna.

 

'Madrid's Messi' as he was tagged when he came.

[Hassony]

[muleskinner]

  On 30/04/2010 at 18:16, kop205 said:

Ah, Bruna.

 

'Madrid's Messi' as he was tagged when he came.

 

It certainly pissed Real Madrid off when he opted for us. All young players are a risk but they are worth a look given the outlay involved.

[Cam]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:18, Hansen said:

Yep. Was just thinking that. It wasn't that long ago we won the youth cup two seasons running.

I can recall Houllier talking of an astonishing under-14 team - "the first full graduates of the academy system". Whatever happened to them?

 

As an aside... a thought occurred to me whilst watching some youth footy on Sky tonight. Have we (or any club) had anyone come through that we may have seen first in the Victory Shield?

 

Also, does the Toulon u-21 tournament still happen. That was always good for the forums - "we have to buy this kid" etc.

[Rimbeux]

Thought I was reading the Election thread for a second, message message message

[Maldini]

  On 30/04/2010 at 21:41, Cam said:

I can recall Houllier talking of an astonishing under-14 team - "the first full graduates of the academy system". Whatever happened to them?

 

As an aside... a thought occurred to me whilst watching some youth footy on Sky tonight. Have we (or any club) had anyone come through that we may have seen first in the Victory Shield?

 

Also, does the Toulon u-21 tournament still happen. That was always good for the forums - "we have to buy this kid" etc.

 

That u14 team was the one with Spearing, Darby, Threlfall etc. There weren't any really outstanding footballers in it, they were just a very good team unit who'd been playing together pretty much since u10s

 

Loads of top pros played in the Victory Shield. Off the top of my head I can remember Joe Cole, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Aaron Lennon and Glen Johnson (who was a CB at the time) in recent years

[kop205]

  On 30/04/2010 at 20:36, muleskinner said:

It certainly pissed Real Madrid off when he opted for us. All young players are a risk but they are worth a look given the outlay involved.

 

True to an extent, and it isn't his fault he was given such a ridiculous tag, but we do seem to have had a bit of a scatter gun approach to bringing in young players.

 

We're yet to see a single one of those punts really pay off - arguably Insua I suppose, but it has hardly been a season to talk about him in glowing terms.

 

Other might yet of course, but the combined outlay on all those players can't be insignificant.

 

I've not seen this Shelvey play, but the fact that he's got about 50 Senior games under his belt bt the age of 18 - and a decent goal record as well - fills me with more optimism. Reserve football doesn't seem to give any real grounding anymore and the very best players will tend to bypass it these days.

[Hightown Phil]

  On 30/04/2010 at 13:18, Hansen said:

Yep. Was just thinking that. It wasn't that long ago we won the youth cup two seasons running.

 

The Youth Cup is a joke.

 

The Academy is there to bring players through, not win trophies, trophies are nice, but in 20 years time are people going to look back and think 'That Youth Cup winning side was brilliant.' No they're not. Joke of a trophy and partly why we've struggled to produce the youngsters - the focus has been all wrong.

 

You just asked 'Why haven't they been given a chance?'

 

I remember people saing Ray Putterill deserved a chance. He never got one, he wasn't good enough.

 

Threlfall went to Hereford, he didn't stand out.

[Epic Swindle]

I agree that it's all about bringing through players and not trophies at that level, though a winning mentality throughout a club is never a bad thing. We all want the next Gerrard or whoever but he was a special case and it's impossible to produce that standard of player each year and I just think we shouldn't be so reticent to plug holes in the squad with homegrown players instead of wasting money on similar standard players from abroad. Ferguson is a good example, depending on the budget and players available, he'll throw in reserve players and if they don't work he quickly moves them on, but if gets a Fletcher or an O'shea he's saved plenty of money that could be better used on quality or offered to exisiting players as incentives to sign new deals.

[Hightown Phil]

But we've not had a Fletcher or O'Shea. We've not even got a Kieran RIchardson.