For too many of our lads, playing for Liverpool is enough

[JonShar]

I think I've watched every game this season bar the Carling Cup games, and it seems to me that too many of our lads feel like they've made it in their careers because they play for Liverpool (and this is just an observation, obviously I have no way of knowing).

 

Insua, Lucas, Benny, Dirk, Skrtel all spring to mind, and there are more in the 2nd/3rd sting (Degen for instance).

 

Good lads they all may be, but I think they're thrilled with the fact that they're playing for a top club, winning trophies would just be the cherry on the cake.

 

To me that's why we've tended to struggle over the years against the "lesser" teams - but then again I could be full of s***.

[Dan]

I think I've watched every game this season bar the Carling Cup games, and it seems to me that too many of our lads feel like they've made it in their careers because they play for Liverpool (and this is just an observation, obviously I have no way of knowing).

 

Insua, Lucas, Benny, Dirk, Skrtel all spring to mind, and there are more in the 2nd/3rd sting (Degen for instance).

 

Good lads they all may be, but I think they're thrilled with the fact that they're playing for a top club, winning trophies would just be the cherry on the cake.

 

To me that's why we've tended to struggle over the years against the "lesser" teams - but then again I could be full of s***.

 

Dirk? F*ck off.

[JonShar]

Dirk? F*ck off.

 

F*ck off yourself.

 

When you take the number of games he plays into account, Dirk is one of the worst attacking players I've ever seen play for us.

[MFletcher]

F*ck off yourself.

 

When you take the number of games he plays into account, Dirk is one of the worst attacking players I've ever seen play for us.

 

Here endeth your credibility.

[JonShar]

Here endeth your credibility.

 

Probably so, but I've tried to push Dirk's good points for so long... he's just not good enough anymore. His first touch is awful, his second touch is usually a tackle to try to win the ball back. I love his spirit, I love his stamina, and I love it when he scores or whips in a cross like he did today... but those things happen far too seldomly.

 

Even on current form Johnson is a better option for right wing. I can't imagine a left back in the country who has a sleepless night before they face Dirk. He's what I imagine I would have been like if I played for Liverpool - full of energy, full of effort, but not much skill.

 

(And yes, I know he's a full Dutch international so he has to be good, but I just can't see beyond his glaring lack of pace and touch anymore.)

[nashman]

Probably so, but I've tried to push Dirk's good points for so long... he's just not good enough anymore. His first touch is awful, his second touch is usually a tackle to try to win the ball back. I love his spirit, I love his stamina, and I love it when he scores or whips in a cross like he did today... but those things happen far too seldomly.

 

Even on current form Johnson is a better option for right wing. I can't imagine a left back in the country who has a sleepless night before they face Dirk. He's what I imagine I would have been like if I played for Liverpool - full of energy, full of effort, but not much skill.

 

(And yes, I know he's a full Dutch international so he has to be good, but I just can't see beyond his glaring lack of pace and touch anymore.)

 

 

I dont agree with you 100 % on Kuyt . However, I do agree with the general sentiment.

[BG]

He's what I imagine I would have been like if I played for Liverpool - full of energy, full of effort, but not much skill.

 

(And yes, I know he's a full Dutch international so he has to be good, but I just can't see beyond his glaring lack of pace and touch anymore.)

 

Just out of interest what level was the best player you've ever played against at?

 

I ask as it's a seriously humiliating experience as anyone who's ever played against a player at that sort of level.

[Arazel]

I always giggle inside when people dismiss Kuyt. Sometimes I giggle out loud too, in cases of extra idiocy. This thread is one.

 

How anyone can criticise Kuyt when hes scored the amount of goals he has from a pretty defenseive right wing position is laughable. Open your eyelids sonny.

[matlfc]

I always giggle inside when people dismiss Kuyt. Sometimes I giggle out loud too, in cases of extra idiocy. This thread is one.

 

How anyone can criticise Kuyt when hes scored the amount of goals he has from a pretty defenseive right wing position is laughable. Open your eyelids sonny.

 

If you think that he is good enough to play for us u obviously dont have eyelids. Pace, touch, skill?

[Arazel]

He's not there to play a role that involves those attributes though. Kuyt's role throughout his stint on the right wing has been to act defensively and close people down. It works, and when we are at our best, he is key to putting people under pressure to help retrieve the ball. That plus his goal tally make him quite invaluable, even if he has hit a dip in form recently.

[JonShar]

I dont agree with you 100 % on Kuyt . However, I do agree with the general sentiment.

 

I didn't intend on it going off on a Kuyt tangent, although he does fall in this group IMO.

 

Just out of interest what level was the best player you've ever played against at?

 

I ask as it's a seriously humiliating experience as anyone who's ever played against a player at that sort of level.

 

I played against the Nevilles in school, so nobody good. In all seriousness I was tongue in cheek when I said he's what I imagined I'd be like if I played for Liverpool... but I think he's not good enough for our right wing.

 

I always giggle inside when people dismiss Kuyt. Sometimes I giggle out loud too, in cases of extra idiocy. This thread is one.

 

How anyone can criticise Kuyt when hes scored the amount of goals he has from a pretty defenseive right wing position is laughable. Open your eyelids sonny.

 

He's not in a defensive right wing position - you're mistaking his "position" with his inability to get to the byline.

[Bootle Buck]

The likes of Kuyt and Laucas would be better used from the bench after we have gone at teams like we did against Pompey this week and go 2 or 3 ahead. Using both of them from the start, especially at home or against lesser teams is far too conservative.

[Red Kent]

Kuyt would be better employed as Golden Goal seller.

[Cheesecake]

Kuyt would be better employed as Golden Goal seller.

 

both would add value to a team with pace on the wings, as it currenlty stands both are limiting our play

Edited March 21, 2010 by DPD1973

[Nebraska Red]

some of our players know they have no competition for their places and I am sure they get complacent at times.

 

we have players that have oodles of talent, tons of skill, yet when they step on the pitch they are rubbish.

 

so many of them cannot pass a ball consistently, don't move into space, show no pace and play in such a rigid style that gives the team nothing.

 

all of these things are as much the fault of the manager, as it is the players'. our tactics in so many games stink to high heaven and we look devoid of ideas and hence goals.

 

there is so much wrong with us right now, it is frightening to think where we could end up if something does not change.

 

the only thing that can change right now is the style of play away from Anfield. we have to stop treating every opponent like the yare the best in the world. FFS, we let the Romanians boss us around until we woke up and found we could score, we let Wigan make us look like a team of shire horses and lost to them. we showed the Mancs too much respect today and lost again.

 

yes, the money issues are a looming threat, but the manager and players can get off their complacent asses and do something about the product on the pitch.

[nashman]

some of our players know they have no competition for their places and I am sure they get complacent at times.

 

One possible reason for this is that Rafa does not manage his resources intelligently. Essentially when a player gets into his good books, he is rarely dropped however s*** he plays. There is no incentive for him to play. First year, Crouch got chances after chances. Next year very little even though he played well. Then he became third choice to Voronin. I am not defending Riera, but he barely got a look in this year. Same with Babel whom I thought could have played a little bit more the last few years. I am not a Kuyt basher but I am sure he could have been rested for a series of games in the last few years and given more chances to Babel and Crouch.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

so, do you love Dirk's spirit, or do you reckon he thinks he's made it coz he's playing for Liverpool?

 

can't have it both ways.

Edited March 22, 2010 by John

[Bailo]

The opposite way of looking at this is the absolute love that Ferguson gets instilled in players at United. It's sickening. He drops Park from the entire 18-man squad for a CL final and the guy is happy to stay there and score goals against us the next season without complaint. Compare that with Rafa dropping Sami from the CL squad and he's off the next year or Riera doesn't play for a month and starts mouthing off.

[beejay]

FFS Rafa, with what's left of this season let's have a go and start the preparations for next year.

 

Cast off all the inhibitions, ditch the cautionary tactics that have failed all season long and be positive.

 

Reina, Johnson, Carra, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Maxi, Aquilani, Mascherano, Babel, Gerrard, Torres Subs : Cavalieri, Kelly, Insua, Benayoun, Kuyt, Pacheco, Dalle Valle

 

Give Kelly, Pacheco & Dalle Valle some playing time.

 

Score a few goals and bring some creativity & entertainment back there's nothing to lose now, we are f*cked anyway.

[JonShar]

so, do you love Dirk's spirit, or do you reckon he thinks he's made it coz he's playing for Liverpool?

 

can't have it both ways.

 

How on earth can I not have it both ways?

 

I love Dirk's spirit.

 

I think Dirk feels like playing for Liverpool is the pinnacle of his career.

 

I don't see how that's contradictory.

[cymrococh]

How on earth can I not have it both ways?

 

I love Dirk's spirit.

 

I think Dirk feels like playing for Liverpool is the pinnacle of his career.

 

I don't see how that's contradictory.

Seeing as he's scored in the champions league final for us, then it probably is.

 

Would you rather players who didn't think we were the pinnacle of their career?

[JonShar]

Seeing as he's scored in the champions league final for us, then it probably is.

 

Would you rather players who didn't think we were the pinnacle of their career?

 

Absolutely. I'd rather have players who think WINNING trophies with us is the pinnacle of their career.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

Absolutely. I'd rather have players who think WINNING trophies with us is the pinnacle of their career.

 

that would show rather more spirit than just thinking "I've made it, I'm at Liverpool", wouldn't it?