The Effect of Rafa leaving the Club this summer (or before)

[Andy @ Allerton]

I find the question of how this may affect fans of the club. Personally, I've always been hopelessly optomistic. I've always been a 'glass half full' kind of bloke - trying to always find the best in things, trying always to (even when everything turns to s***) see positives and little things that you can still take away and be cheerful about. I know at times this infuriates and irritates people, some who apparantly see me as a 'happy clapper' - some of who seem to enjoy being negative and seeing the worst in things - but hey, everyone's different - everyone has their view.

 

As part of this optomism I try to have, I try and get behind the club and the manager and the players - although there are obviously exceptions for various reasons at times - but the 'loyalty' if you will is always there. When someone is having a go at the club or the players or the manager or the City, I react in a defensive, protective way, in the same way if someone had a go at my wife or mates or family.

 

I don't think really that anyone can have any serious arguments about when any of the mangers of Liverpool football club have been dismissed. All of them, I think, broadly speaking, where given the bullet or walked at about the right time. I don't think anyone can have serious doubts about this (Although I'm happy to listen to them).

 

However, I think that the timing for Benitez to go (If it is now-ish or the summer) is just so wrong that it's untrue. He'll be going because of the frustration of 20 years of mis-management and wasted opportunities at the club. He'll be going because of the heartbreaking truth of the matter than come next season (or the season after..) we'll no longer be the top club in the land. But Benitez is the whipping boy for the expectations that have been there for 15 years before he joined the club.

 

This isn't another post debating all this (This has all been done by people far more eloquent than I'll ever be) - but my question is: If he does go - how will it affect the fans?

 

Given I've stuck behind all the managers at the club for as long as seems reasonable - and they've all gone or being pushed before there was a conflict between the views of the club and myself - there was never an issue. However, if we move the manager on for clearly outside influences (And, it must be said, a horrific short-term run of form and results) - then where does the bar get set?

 

I'd personally be a bit annoyed with getting shot of the manager when there (to me) still seemed to be firstly a lot of potential there and secondly just fair play of letting someone that's moved us forward year on year be sacked because of the 'Now!! Now!! Now!!' whims of 'Football as it is today'.

 

I think that given that annoyance, I would be far, far, far less patient than I've ever been with a new manager coming in (People have already said in other threads that the 'five year plan' is 'stupid' and 'shouldn't be stood for' in future.) And I can understand that point of view - I think that if Rafa leaves or is pushed then the new man coming in will HAVE to win the league within a season or two (Perhaps three at the absolute outside.)

 

Which is clearly ridiculous - as even with near unlimited funds, it's going to be a big ask for anyone.

 

So. Where will that get us? Personally I feel that we're heading, clearly now, there is no other course, for a Leeds or Newcastle United situation. Fans (Probably including me in future years) baying for the managers head pretty much from the off.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to turn into that kind of fan, which is why I'm going to sit down and review my options if Rafa moves on at the end of the season.

 

I was just really interested in how other people think that this potential happening might affect them and their expectations/patience/belief/unconditional support...

 

I think it's going to be a difficult x years ahead for LFC and everyone involved with the club at any level. I'm sure Forest never expected they'd be where they are now and for so long - same with Leeds, Newcastle and several other clubs.

[Conrad]

I appreciate you are an optimist and you want rafa to stay. fair enough.

 

Speaking personally, I'll be delighted when Rafa leaves. I hope he steps down in May. I will have tremendous respect for him, I still love him and think he's put his heart and soul into the job. But it hasn't worked out. Things have gone stale, senior players are disgruntled, key players have left and not been replaced. we came so close last season but it wasn't to be.

 

He's had 6 years. We are no closer today to winning the league then when he replaced houllier.

 

So, time for a change.

 

I hope Rafa lands a top top job like Madrid where I am sure he will be successful.

 

I hope we make the right appointment, keep Reina, Mascherano, Torres and Gerrard and build a team around those 4.

[Buzz]

Personally, I've always been hopelessly optomistic. I've always been a 'glass half full' kind of bloke - trying to always find the best in things, trying always to (even when everything turns to s***) see positives and little things that you can still take away and be cheerful about

Except for Refs and MON.

 

 

I think comparisons with Newcastle and Leeds are getting closer to the mark than I would wish for, but not really cause of Rafa, but because of the owners/chairmenship. If a new manager was to come in I don't know what i'd think, I don't think I would be excited or optirmistic, more of lets just wait and see how it goes. I will always support the players and the manager, but this season has been knackering and draining, emotionally and physically.

[Hobbsie]

It is nice to read some positive comments after everything thats been going on. I would like to say I stand behind the manager until the end, but I'm not so sure now. I also accept that the frustration to win the Premiership is bound to continue regardless of whether Rafa stays or goes. I just wish Rafa didn't go round saying things like we'll get 4th place. The difference this time (as compared with GH, for example) is that I'd be more scared then excited about who would come in afterwards. More importantly, as being expanded on in another thread, I'm more concerned about the future of the club itself, then its manager.

 

But going back to Rafa, how long do you let it go on? How long is too long? It's been 5 years, wasn't that the 'plan' the club had? I guess the new owners arriving and everything else has changed things.

 

Basically its a catch 22, I think we'll be damned if he leaves, damned if he stays at the moment, unless investment can be found - then it will be a different situation. Graham Taylor mentioned something yesterday during the match that I think rings true for me - by all means have a game plan, by all means ensure you have tactic awareness, but let your players play their game a bit more, don't be too restrictive

Edited March 12, 2010 by Hobbsie

[smithdown]

I'll feel massive disappointment if he goes. I think his personality exactly matches what our club needs and despite everything going on now the man shows a personal commitment that I think we are fortunate to have around. If he goes I think we will settle for AN Other - under this regime I can see us being sold a number of pups in quick time - and we'll rue the day as one no-mark after another swans in and out again. I think we'll be incredibly lucky to find another who inspires a thousand new flags.

[sean]

I'll feel massive disappointment if he goes. I think his personality exactly matches what our club needs and despite everything going on now the man shows a personal commitment that I think we are fortunate to have around. If he goes I think we will settle for AN Other - under this regime I can see us being sold a number of pups in quick time - and we'll rue the day as one no-mark after another swans in and out again. I think we'll be incredibly lucky to find another who inspires a thousand new flags.

 

 

Echo the point about his personality, being a humble type of man he suits us a fair bit. One of the reasons I'm not taken by Mourinho.

[Kite]

He'll be going because of the frustration of 20 years of mis-management and wasted opportunities at the club. He'll be going because of the heartbreaking truth of the matter than come next season (or the season after..) we'll no longer be the top club in the land.

I wouldn't think this to be true. For me, he'll be going because he keeps picking Insua. Because he is content to leave Lucas in the engine room. Because he takes Babel off after 65mins. Because he oversees a coaching team that seems incapable of organising a set piece. Because he has not convinced at all in the scouting department, giving us two 20 million players that had no impact among other things. Because he plays 4-4-1-1 no matter who or where we play, or who we have available to play (the vast majority of the time). Because of on the field matters basically.

 

Like smithdown, I'll be disappointed when he goes, agree that he matches the mentality of the club, as we see it as supporters, but I'm also massively disappointed that he himself has failed to build upon the impact he made in his first season here.

[Falconhoof]

In all manner of things, the one thing you must never do is seek to recreate the style of the past. Imagine the club as a great palace that has had works added over the centuries. The thing that keeps it alive is each time a new piece is added it is 'of its time', not trying to pretend to be what, for example, the medieval architects would have done if only they'd had our modern techniques.

 

A new manager doesn't have to have any of the style or modesty of managers that have gone before. He has to win, thats his remit, and he has to do it in his own way. If he's bound by the past then he's inhibited and can't use his own personality to the full.

[Jarg Armani]

This again.

 

Listen, him staying is not the key to turning the club around.

 

Him leaving is not the key to turning the club around.

 

We really need to separate the footballing and ownership issue. Ownership affects the football, football does not affect the ownership.

[pipnasty]

This again.

 

Listen, him staying is not the key to turning the club around.

 

Him leaving is not the key to turning the club around.

 

We really need to separate the footballing and ownership issue. Ownership affects the football, football does not affect the ownership.

 

 

Spot on.

 

Different guy, same old s***.

 

Sort out the ownership issue and then see where we are then. Rafa staying or going will make no difference whatsoever at the moment.

[Jarg Armani]

Spot on.

 

Different guy, same old s***.

 

Sort out the ownership issue and then see where we are then. Rafa staying or going will make no difference whatsoever at the moment.

 

it's horrible isn't it phil.

 

you alright anyway mate?

 

how's the garden?

[WillG]

I hope we make the right appointment, keep Reina, Mascherano, Torres and Gerrard and build a team around those 4.

 

This isn't a pop at you, but I think this idea has probably crossed Rafa's mind too.

 

As for 'the right appointment' - whoever he may be - he had better bring some f*cking magic beans with him, cos until we get rid of the bloodsuckers in charge we're up to our necks in sh*t without a rope in sight.

 

We are, in table terms, where a squad of this value should be, and to answer question in the title - "The effect of Rafa leaving" will be a continued decline until those c*nts leave or die!

 

Frankly, we've been lucky to hold on to him since the Klinsmann debacle - someone with less love for the club would have walked several times since then.

[pipnasty]

it's horrible isn't it phil.

 

you alright anyway mate?

 

how's the garden?

 

 

Get a room!!

 

 

 

Not bad at all though.

 

We'll have to meet up soon - will be good to see you again.

[goose island]

This again.

 

Listen, him staying is not the key to turning the club around.

 

Him leaving is not the key to turning the club around.

 

We really need to separate the footballing and ownership issue. Ownership affects the football, football does not affect the ownership.

 

brilliantly put that mate.

[Hodgson for Chelsea]

Rafa is stubborn as hell.

 

He continues to slog away with Lucas and Masch even though it clearly doesn't work.

 

He has failed to replace Alonso and it is about to cost him his job.

 

Put Alonso into the side this season and we'd have <insert number here> more points.

 

Without him we cant find a red shirt.

 

Compare it to the mancs - Valencia isn't in Placcy's league, but he replaced an attacking right footed player like for like and got Rooney to play a more attacking role.

 

We spent what we spent in the summer. Some will say it was 'only' this or 'only' that.

 

Fact of the matter is Acquilani was a massive gamble and it hasn't paid off.

[Kite]

This again.

 

Listen, him staying is not the key to turning the club around.

 

Him leaving is not the key to turning the club around.

 

We really need to separate the footballing and ownership issue. Ownership affects the football, football does not affect the ownership.

 

Yes but, while we wait for the ownership s*** to be sorted, I'd like us to be playing good football in the interim

[pipnasty]

Yes but, while we wait for the ownership s*** to be sorted, I'd like us to be playing good football in the interim

 

 

Why? To be entertained while the club we love slowly dies in front of our very eyes?

 

f*** that - our situation is serious enough that I will be happy if we actually survive this in one piece. I said a few weeks ago that our expectations need to be seriously lowered until this is sorted out.

 

The one thing we need at the moment is stability as there are going to be some seriously testing times ahead. What is happening now is nothing compared to what could possibly be around the corner. The last thing we want is a merry go round of managers.

[Frosty Jack]

 

He's had 6 years. We are no closer today to winning the league then when he replaced houllier.

 

 

 

to be fair that's not true though is it? say whatever you like about whether he should stay or not, but the points don't lie.

 

RB

58

82

68

76

86

-----

av 74

GH

54

67

69

80

64

60

------

av 66

[Nebraska Red]

If we get new owners, I would give Rafa some more time as long as he gets some money and some help spending it. No more bargain basement crap and buying damaged goods.

 

If we don't get new owners, he has to go or I honestly believe we will lose the core of our best team.

 

He has been screwed over in so many ways this season. Broken promises, injuries to key players, lack of investment.

 

However, his selection policies, tactics and some of his buying have left alot to be desired .

[Jarg Armani]

Yes but, while we wait for the ownership s*** to be sorted, I'd like us to be playing good football in the interim

 

What are you basing your optimism on? New owners While U Wait - wake up sunshine, it's getting worse every year, Hicks and his mates are going to find a way to borrow more money and buy out Gilett, we'll be selling more players than we buy, our immediate financial rivals will be Stoke and Sunderland again, they will beat us to players we want again. We will have next to no chance of a top 4 finish next season unless something goes very wrong at City.

 

Meanwhile, will someone distract us with exciting West Ham style 4-3 defeats?

[Benzo-13]

What are you basing your optimism on? New owners While U Wait - wake up sunshine, it's getting worse every year, Hicks and his mates are going to find a way to borrow more money and buy out Gilett, we'll be selling more players than we buy, our immediate financial rivals will be Stoke and Sunderland again, they will beat us to players we want again. We will have next to no chance of a top 4 finish next season unless something goes very wrong at City.

 

Meanwhile, will someone distract us with exciting West Ham style 4-3 defeats?

Agree, we've got a far too divided a set-up in the boardroom for any sort of plan for the now/future.

 

Thats what's killing the football. No one gets a proper answer.

[Damian_de]

Agree, we've got a far too divided a set-up in the boardroom for any sort of plan for the now/future.

 

Thats what's killing the football. No one gets a proper answer.

So, it's not Lucas then?

[Benzo-13]

So, it's not Lucas then?

Well that's Rafa's choice.

To me he's a squad player as he won't take responsibility.

[Gunga Din]

What are you basing your optimism on? New owners While U Wait - wake up sunshine, it's getting worse every year, Hicks and his mates are going to find a way to borrow more money and buy out Gilett, we'll be selling more players than we buy, our immediate financial rivals will be Stoke and Sunderland again, they will beat us to players we want again. We will have next to no chance of a top 4 finish next season unless something goes very wrong at City.

 

Meanwhile, will someone distract us with exciting West Ham style 4-3 defeats?

 

 

how bad do you think our team is? seriously? should we be competing with Villa and Everton and Birmingham for league places? is that the standard of players we have at this club?

[pipnasty]

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why-administration-football-clubs-common

 

 

"There is an interesting correlation between relegation from the top flight and going into administration a few years later. Examples are (relegation year followed by administration year): Middlesbrough (1985/1988); Crystal Palace (1998/1998); QPR (1996/2000); Bradford City (2001/2001); Leicester City and Ipswich Town (2002/2002); Wimbledon (2000/2002); Derby County (2002/2003); Leeds United (2004/2006); Southampton (2005/2009). Southampton is not the only club to have debts of £30m plus as five others were in that category, including Leicester City which also had a new stadium to fund and debts of £40m, as did Derby County (£33m)."

 

I'm sure there are the exceptions but on the whole it appears that clubs who have severe financial difficulties also under-achieve badly on the pitch. It makes sense really.