Rafa's Squad Progression

[MFletcher]

 

 

 

Rafa's squad progression in each position throughout his tenure. One or two might not be in the correct places e.g. Le Tallec, but I had the fit them in somewhere to begin with. Either way, a player in brackets indicates that the player was perceived to be 'filling in' that position at the time. (Jan) obviously means the player was sold half-way through the season. Henchoz/Pellegrino and Pongolle/Fowler indicate the former was sold and replaced by the latter in January.

 

I think it's quite useful to lay it out like that. It lets us see where we're stronger, where we're weaker, how we've fared season to season in terms of squad strength and depth.

 

Below is the net spend chart for anyone who wants to compare season to season in terms of squad strength and the money spent to arrive at said squad.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to prove anything by doing this, but I felt it would be beneficial to get it down in such a format and then allow people to make their own assessments, particularly given the various media accusations about the strength of the squad, Rafa's selling of players who weren't cutting it and so forth.

[libero]

If I remember correctly you sent me this by e-mail the last time you posted it.

Any chances again mate, your figures have just proved an argument I have with a mate.

[Earl Hafler]

Is Sinama-Pongolle on this one ?

[MFletcher]

He certainly is.

 

You can save that to you computer just by right clicking it, libero. I'm probably insulting your intelligence by telling you that, but it's not going to need much updating until the summer.

[johngibo YPC]

We didn't spend that much on Torres

Not sure where the Garcia figure comes from either

[Frosty Jack]

good work putting that together, can be a one stop preventing many a pointless argument

[magneto]

put this on my website to give it some more exposure, expect it on Newsnow any minute. Fantastic work

[MFletcher]

We didn't spend that much on Torres

Not sure where the Garcia figure comes from either

 

Torres was really £20M - £18M cash and Garcia at £2M.

 

I've put it at £26.5M to show that, even if we use full, conservative estimates, Rafa's spending is nowhere near as high as people would have you believe.

 

good work putting that together, can be a one stop preventing many a pointless argument

 

Good man. I've seen a lot of comments along the lines of 'he sold players he shouldn't have' etc. This demonstrates what we moved onto at the time, not what we have at the moment. Hopefully it will put into perspective the claims that we shouldn't have sold Bellamy, when the chart demonstrates that his place in the squad was taken by Torres.

[magneto]

Worth pointing out that massive outlay in 07/08 was when the Yanks took over and in essence..its leveraged buys

[Flight]

Also worth bearing in mind, when dealing with the snake oil salesmen that own our club, that the club finances are something like August - July, so the sale of Xabi will be included in this years figures and won't be in published finances for a year or two.

 

Hence their bulls*** about spending this last summer.

[Frosty Jack]

Worth pointing out that massive outlay in 07/08 was when the Yanks took over and in essence..its leveraged buys

 

That was the crux of my theory that the 38 million net since they took over, which arguably represents the combined cost of Torres & Mascherano, the first major additions when they took over. Dining at the top table. A symbolic point, but a relevant one nevertheless. And It went straight on the debt that we're since paying for. yay!

[Toni]

great post, great effort

[libero]

He certainly is.

 

You can save that to you computer just by right clicking it, libero. I'm probably insulting your intelligence by telling you that, but it's not going to need much updating until the summer.

It was the excel sheet not the PDF I was after.

What you heard about transfers like?????????????? cant stand trawling through the crap on the transfer thread.

[Mikey]

Using your figures thats a spend of £231M on the squad, I know that several players have been bought and sold for the same position - and that we have recouped a lot of money as well - but thats still a ton of money to spend and to still be moaning that we have no strength in depth.

 

Also, after over 5 seasons there are still positions where we are arguably no stronger or even weaker than when we started.

[Flasher]

Using your figures thats a spend of £231M on the squad, I know that several players have been bought and sold for the same position - and that we have recouped a lot of money as well - but thats still a ton of money to spend and to still be moaning that we have no strength in depth.

 

Also, after over 5 seasons there are still positions where we are arguably no stronger or even weaker than when we started.

 

I agree with the sentiment of most on here. It really does make you realise just how small our budgets have really been. That said Mikey's point above is also a fair argument.

 

I would conclude that a) we have very limited budgets and b) we have sometimes sold to buy when we didn't need to. The mixture of the two has made it very hard to progress as much as we would have all liked.

[johngibo YPC]

Using your figures thats a spend of £231M on the squad, I know that several players have been bought and sold for the same position - and that we have recouped a lot of money as well - but thats still a ton of money to spend and to still be moaning that we have no strength in depth.

 

Also, after over 5 seasons there are still positions where we are arguably no stronger or even weaker than when we started.

 

Its two different debates really isn't it

Has Rafa been given enough money to spend?

Has he spent the money he has has as well as he could?

 

I think even if the answer to the first question is no, a debate can be had on the second question. As long as people are realistic and don't expect him to have a perfect record in the transfer market

[surf]

Using your figures thats a spend of £231M on the squad, I know that several players have been bought and sold for the same position - and that we have recouped a lot of money as well - but thats still a ton of money to spend and to still be moaning that we have no strength in depth.

 

Also, after over 5 seasons there are still positions where we are arguably no stronger or even weaker than when we started.

 

sorry mate but you have to look at the net spend. all good and well saying he's had £231M but if he's had to sell for £231M you can imagine there won't be any strength in depth

 

he's had £85M or so to improve on the squad houllier left him.

[johngibo YPC]

sorry mate but you have to look at the net spend. all good and well saying he's had £231M but if he's had to sell for £231M you can imagine there won't be any strength in depth

 

he's had £85M or so to improve on the squad houllier left him.

 

Yes, but i still think both issues can be debated

Say Rafa sells Babel fro 10m in the summer and replaces him with a striker fro 20m. And thats all he spends

Surely we can still have two debates. Are we being given enough money to compete (i.e 10m net) and was that striker the best use of the 20m we had

The problem is when people get blinded by one or the other. (actually the biggest problem is when we have 0 net spend and rafa is expected to pull rabits out his a*** but i meant the biggest problem in a discussion sense)

[Redray]

The £17 Million stated for Masch includes his pay over the four years doesn't it?

[surf]

Yes, but i still think both issues can be debated

Say Rafa sells Babel fro 10m in the summer and replaces him with a striker fro 20m. And thats all he spends

Surely we can still have two debates. Are we being given enough money to compete (i.e 10m net) and was that striker the best use of the 20m we had

The problem is when people get blinded by one or the other. (actually the biggest problem is when we have 0 net spend and rafa is expected to pull rabits out his a*** but i meant the biggest problem in a discussion sense)

 

yep, but your second debate is a different debate to the one mikey was referring to, cause he was suggesting a certain amount of spend means to a certain squad strength. the latter isnt necessarily the case cause the manager might have had to sell lots of players as well

 

people are always going to question whether the money has been spent well and that's a very fair debate to have

[CaptainXabi]

The £17 Million stated for Masch includes his pay over the four years doesn't it?

It does not.

[Gethin]

Like the position progression chart. Any chance of expanding it a bit so it's easy to see where the money has been spent - i.e. net spend by position?

[MFletcher]

I'll have a look. I've noticed one or two errors, such as Sinama Pongolle's fee not being included and Garcia being taken out of the squad progression a year early. If there are any other errors point them out and I'll update it.

 

I'll do the positional net spend over the weekend and see what I come up with.

Edited January 22, 2010 by MFletcher

[MFletcher]

Done.

 

 

 

 

This is a massive image. I've tried to incorporate first team players only, but there are one or two exceptions e.g. Leto and Guthrie given the nature of the fees. The reconcilation on the right incorporates the change I've made to the original to bring in Sinama's £2.5M fee from Recreativo.

 

General observations are that Rafa hasn't really focused his resources on one particular area whilst the area with the highest turnover of players is up front.

 

General comments welcome.

Edited January 22, 2010 by MFletcher

[Kring]

There is no sign on fees on free agents. Spending should be a lot higher!