The defence

[MFletcher]

What has gone wrong?

 

In previous seasons we could go 1-0 up, keep the clean sheet and nick the win. Even when we weren't winning all the time, we weren't losing. Now we look like a side who look bereft of confidence every time the ball comes into our half. You can almost sense the panic in the backline when the ball gets played near them.

 

Rafa knows how to organise a defence, and this has been evident over a number of years. In recent months we have not been defending like a Rafa Benitez side.

 

Is it the players? Is it the system? What the f*** has gone wrong?

Edited January 13, 2010 by MFletcher

[Earl Hafler]

Carra - the organiser, the rock on which seasons before have been built - has gone. A few improved performances before Christmas but he's shot. And i think the hoofing has got worse because he just wants to see the ball as far away from him as possible.

 

This isn't a slump in form, it's a deterioration in his ability and it's sad to watch

 

 

And Skrtel ? Phil ' Phil Brown ' Brown would be proud of his rise and fall.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Earl Hafler

[George Costanza]

Rafa - there's the problem.

[Paul]

We have two fullbacks who aren't great defensively, albeit Insua is still young.

Carragher hasn't been himself, Agger has had injury problems and Skrtel is just average.

[MFletcher]

Rafa - there's the problem.

 

Let's be sensible.

 

Rafa has shown over an extended period of time, both with us and Valencia, that he knows how to organise a defence. This does not look like a Rafa-organised defence. He hasn't suddenly lost the knowledge required to set up a defence properly, so something is up. Perhaps it's something to do with the backroom staff and a change of dynamic, or perhaps we simply had a bad start to the season defensively and the players have struggled to regain confidence as a result.

[dorgie]

We have two fullbacks who aren't great defensively,

 

That's high praise for the 2 we had in there tonight.

[BG]

Carra - the organiser, the rock on which seasons before have been built - has gone. A few improved performances before Christmas but he's shot. And i think the hoofing has got worse because he just wants to see the ball as far away from him as possible.

 

This isn't a slump in form, it's a deterioration in his ability and it's sad to watch

 

 

And Skrtel ? Phil ' Phil Brown ' Brown would be proud of his rise and fall.

 

Tend to agree on Carra. His decision to leave the ball in the first half today was an absolute shocker of a decision. Interesting that Hamman apparently said he seems a shell of himself. He certainly looks that way on the pitch - no real sense of authority from him.

 

I also think Insua should be taken out of the firing line and Aurelio put in. We look too vulnerable down that side.

[Zoob]

Carra - the organiser, the rock on which seasons before have been built - has gone. A few improved performances before Christmas but he's shot. And i think the hoofing has got worse because he just wants to see the ball as far away from him as possible.

 

This isn't a slump in form, it's a deterioration in his ability and it's sad to watch

 

 

And Skrtel ? Phil ' Phil Brown ' Brown would be proud of his rise and fall.

 

Agree absolutely. Add Insua is still young and experienced - would be different if the other 3 defenders were bang on form, but they're not, so his shortcomings stand out more. Agger has been our best defender but still hasn't been nearly as good as in previous seasons. Sktrel has deteriorated spectacularly, - I think he's no longer willing to put himself where he can get hurt because of Carra breaking his face in our first league game.

 

Carraghers's hoofing is just awful, it really must stop, but I think you're on to something as to why it happens, particularly since most of the time there are better options near by.

[Conrad]

What has gone wrong?

 

 

Carragher looks like the years are catching up with him - I still think he can do a job if well shielded. We controlled games and played more in the oppo half last year, and he was fine. But he will need better quality around him

 

Insua - not anywhere near good enough

 

Skertl - not good enough

 

Agger - not as commanding in the air as I would like, but otherwise fine, our best defender by a distance

 

We miss big Sami massively. And we need a Sami-esque signing this summer

 

 

But ultimately it isn't just the defence, the team is poor all over the park

[Flanders]

Carra - the organiser, the rock on which seasons before have been built - has gone. A few improved performances before Christmas but he's shot. And i think the hoofing has got worse because he just wants to see the ball as far away from him as possible.

 

This isn't a slump in form, it's a deterioration in his ability and it's sad to watch

 

 

And Skrtel ? Phil ' Phil Brown ' Brown would be proud of his rise and fall.

Carra will be back to his best form in time, he isn't past it, if it isn't for us it will be for someone else before his career is finished. He has never relied on pace and will be a top player for at least another 3 years.

[Gerrardrules]

It's about proper defending. I think it's clear we now lack proper defenders. Carra has lost it. He kept hoofing and hoofing. How on earth can you keep him in the starting line after this? Surely you'd tell him to try it the right way. If he doesn't want to listen, then put him in the reserves.

[Earl Hafler]

Agree absolutely. Add Insua is still young and experienced - would be different if the other 3 defenders were bang on form, but they're not, so his shortcomings stand out more. Agger has been our best defender but still hasn't been nearly as good as in previous seasons. Sktrel has deteriorated spectacularly, - I think he's no longer willing to put himself where he can get hurt because of Carra breaking his face in our first league game.

 

Carraghers's hoofing is just awful, it really must stop, but I think you're on to something as to why it happens, particularly since most of the time there are better options near by.

 

 

The space that Aqualiani is in will look a lot smaller to Carra because he's low on confidence, so he won't take the risk of the ball being intercepted or Aqualani losing out in a tackle, so he whacks it forward.

[Benzo-13]

They are all collectively not aggressive enough.

[Earl Hafler]

Carra will be back to his best form in time, he isn't past it, if it isn't for us it will be for someone else before his career is finished. He has never relied on pace and will be a top player for at least another 3 years.

 

I can't remember him playing centre back next to attacking fullbacks like Johnson and Degen, especially as he's slower than when he played alongside Finnan, who wasn't as attacking as Johnson.

 

He just isn't used to it and it's a bit late in his career to adapt.

[MFletcher]

I think we have to look seriously at selling Babel and using that money at centre back.

 

Sign someone on loan as a short-term option if need an extra body up front, but the bulk of the money should really be re-directed to the backline. That's the root cause of our problems this year.

[CarraLegend]

Im amazed Agger seems to get let off with so much, he was embarassingly bad tonight, skinned loads of times, out of position loads of times and s**** in the air. Not that the others are any better and Skrtel is worse but it always surprises me how much leeway he seems to get.

[Earl Hafler]

I think we have to look seriously at selling Babel and using that money at centre back.

 

Sign someone on loan as a short-term option if need an extra body up front, but the bulk of the money should really be re-directed to the backline. That's the root cause of our problems this year.

 

 

I've got a hunch that Kelly and Agger might make a decent partnership but the former isn't going to be ready to start every game probably for another season. Maybe someone experienced and vocal till then.

[Jim Price]

The fact that we've got as many regular players (Kuyt, Lucas, Mascherano, Babel, N'Gog, Insua) as I can remember in a Liverpool side who cannot be relied on to retain possession doesn't help. Carragher and Sktrel don't need much of an excuse to go for the long ball and if it's a choice between that any playing it into Lucas or Kuyt, it's obvious what they'll do. It all leads to us being under far more pressure than before, lots of free kicks in our half and corner kicks which they are also struggling with. At the same time Carragher is definitely not the player he was.

[dorgie]

Carra is 32 later this month. Inerestingly, Paisley moved Thommo on at 30 and Emlyn Hughes at 32 (two legends).

[Benzo-13]

Carra will be back to his best form in time, he isn't past it, if it isn't for us it will be for someone else before his career is finished. He has never relied on pace and will be a top player for at least another 3 years.

He's not got the aerial dominance of a Stam or Hyypia or either the mobility of a Cannavarro to prolong his career.

He's spent as a first choice at our level now. All those miles on the clock add up.

[Earl Hafler]

He's not got the aerial dominance of a Stam or Hyypia or either the mobility of a Cannavarro to prolong his career.

He's spent as a first choice at our level now. All those miles on the clock add up.

 

It's why i likened him more to Henchoz than Hyypia.

 

All those lung bursting last ditch tackles will take a couple of years out of his career compared to Sami.

[Paul]

Im amazed Agger seems to get let off with so much, he was embarassingly bad tonight, skinned loads of times, out of position loads of times and s**** in the air. Not that the others are any better and Skrtel is worse but it always surprises me how much leeway he seems to get.

 

Couldn't agree more, very overrated player in my mind.

Has a nice left foot and that's about it.

[CarraLegend]

Couldn't agree more, very overrated player in my mind.

Has a nice left foot and that's about it.

 

Indeed, and even his legendary passing has been crap since he got back. Hopefully it's just a bad spell but its not good.

[D.Boon]

I honestly think its is to do with Carra being gone as a top player and Insua not being good enough.

 

Let's be sensible.

 

Rafa has shown over an extended period of time, both with us and Valencia, that he knows how to organise a defence. This does not look like a Rafa-organised defence. He hasn't suddenly lost the knowledge required to set up a defence properly, so something is up. Perhaps it's something to do with the backroom staff and a change of dynamic, or perhaps we simply had a bad start to the season defensively and the players have struggled to regain confidence as a result.

 

Indeed. Top defenders dont need half a season to find form or confidence.

[Jim D]

It is hard to believe that any of our defenders are the same players from last season. Skrtel looked solid, Carra was marshalling the defence and at his best, Agger calm and confident on the ball. They've been sapped of all confidence in their ability to defend as a unit, it is almost like they've never played with one another! We're in a rot and we need to go back to basics for the rest of the season. Concentrate on the defence, get us hard to beat again and bring some confidence at the back in the team.