Mancs in decline

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

I'm counting precisely no chickens

His name was Richard and he came from Manchester. He was the first caller to MUTV and what he had to say made the presenters squirm on a channel known in media circles as Pravda TV, where the interviews with Sir Alex Ferguson are traditionally about as demanding as Hello! magazine. The Premier League champions had just been bundled out of the FA Cup by Leeds United, of League One, and feelings were running high. "It's not good enough," Richard announced. "We have to change the manager."

 

There is always that danger of the classic knee-jerk reaction when Manchester United have put together a string of bad results and the team have temporarily lost their wow factor. Ferguson loves nothing more than toasting another title by reminiscing about the frequency with which he has seen headlines declaring the end of the empire. "Bloody hell, you had in me in a bath chair down on Torquay beach!" he announced during one press conference last season, eyes sparkling, while the journalists did what we always do in those moments – stare sheepishly at the floor.

 

There can be no doubt, though, that United's supporters have authentic reasons to contemplate the future with more trepidation than has been the norm since Ferguson started greedily accumulating all those trophies. Fabio Capello, the England coach, has already said that United are not the "war machine" they were and it is not just a question of the artillery being downgraded now Old Trafford is no longer bedazzled by Cristiano Ronaldo. It is an issue of whether this is a team in decline, and whether the money is there to prevent the downward trajectory. The only logical conclusion is that yes it is, and no there is not.

 

When Ferguson was asked to respond to Capello's observation recently he argued that the perception of United regressing was a "media thing". He insisted that his second-placed side's experience and strength in depth make them "better placed than most teams" and that their challengers "all know that and they always have to look at Manchester United – there's no getting away from that".

 

The most successful manager in the business was even more forthright when some of his younger players came under scrutiny. The question was asked whether the likes of Darron Gibson, Danny Welbeck and the Da Silva twins were equipped to take over once the club had lost the services of Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and Gary Neville. Ferguson called one journalist an "idiot" and said he should be "bloody sacked". He found the debate "unbelievable".

 

His team, he is entitled to point out, are hanging on to Chelsea's coat-tails at the top of the league, only two points behind the leaders, and have qualified for the Champions League's first knockout round, as well as having the first leg of a Carling Cup semi-final against Manchester City tomorrow. Yet this is a question of what lies ahead and to try to pass off everything as hunky dory is to ignore the fact that the failure against Leeds was, in one strange way, not actually as shocking as it first appears.

 

The truth is that Ferguson's men have been struggling for fluency and cohesion for longer than they would care to remember and that, by the halfway point of the league season, they had already lost to Burnley, Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa and Fulham. The defeat by Leeds was the first time they have been eliminated from the FA Cup third round in the Ferguson era while, in the Champions League, facing moderate opposition, they found themselves behind in all of their home ties, against Wolfsburg, CSKA Moscow and Besiktas.

 

What Ferguson needs, above all else, is a show of strength in the transfer market but there are rules in place, financial constraints imposed by the Glazer family at a time when United owe about £700m to banks, financial institutions and hedge funds.

 

At the same time the club have made the long-term decision not to sign any players aged 26 or above for large transfer fees. Dimitar Berbatov, who was 27 when he joined from Tottenham Hotspur for £30.75m, has been described as the "last of his kind" and the age-before-ability policy means United will entertain big-money deals only if the players involved will still retain a significant market value at the end of a five- or six-year contract. At a stroke, the Glazers were essentially telling Ferguson they would not pay large sums for established international players such as David Villa or Franck Ribéry.

 

The effects cannot be overstated at a time when the miracle of perseverance otherwise known as Giggs has to be used more sparingly while, in defence, Rio Ferdinand has joined the club's thirtysomethings and almost instantaneously found his body betraying him. Nemanja Vidic, the club's player of the year, is reputedly agitating for a summer move to Spain, and nobody can be certain of Edwin van der Sar's position when the 39-year-old is out of contract at the end of the season and his wife, Annemarie, is recovering from a brain haemorrhage.

 

It can only alarm Ferguson that so many celebrated players are coming to the end of their professional lives. From time to time, Scholes can turn back the clock, with exquisite results, but this is no longer a guarantee. He and Neville are also out of contract in June and you wonder whether one or both will choose a personally choreographed exit. Neville increasingly looks like a champion boxer who has had one too many fights and, if that does not strike you as an original line, it is because it is not. It was first used three years ago.

 

That leaves Ferguson relying to a certain extent on the players coming through the ranks and waiting for Gibson, for one, to show he is more than just a decent player. At Old Trafford it is not enough to be "decent". Superlatives are required. Anderson has made a striking lack of progress. Welbeck may be an exciting prospect but it was also one of Ferguson's more preposterous statements last summer to say the player, then 18, would make Capello's squad for the World Cup.

 

So who else? Zoran Tosic has made a grand total of two substitute appearances since arriving last January as part of the £16.5m joint deal that was supposed to bring his Partizan Belgrade team-mate Adem Ljajic to Old Trafford a year later. Ljajic was marooned after the Glazers decided it was too expensive a gamble and operated a get-out clause in the deal. Nani? United made it clear what they think of his efforts to take over from Ronaldo when they offered him to Benfica as part of a proposed cash-plus-player exchange for the prodigious Angel Di María.

 

The lesson of history is clear: we should not doubt Ferguson's ability to reanimate a championship team. The awkward moment on MUTV on Sunday afternoon was edited out from the replays yesterday.

 

Yet there are more concerns for United right now than at any point since the team failed to qualify from the Champions League group stages in 2005 and Roy Keane went on the attack in another moment MUTV did not want us to see.

[ManxRed]

They'll just pin this to the wall in the referee's changing room, and everything will be back to normal.

[johngibo YPC]

They're f***ed with their current owners just like we are. They just had a better team in place so it will take abit longer for people to realise

They can't keep having summers like the last one and being the best team in the country, Does anyone seriously believe Ferguson declined to spend 40m in the summer????

[CarraLegend]

They're f***ed with their current owners just like we are. They just had a better team in place so it will take abit longer for people to realise

They can't keep having summers like the last one and being the best team in the country, Does anyone seriously believe Ferguson declined to spend 40m in the summer????

 

Yep, pretty much.

 

His "im happy with my squad so wont be spending" is laughable and I'd be surprise if even the thick, clueless c**** that support that club cant see straight through it.

Edited January 5, 2010 by CarraLegend

[Sion]

Not Just Us

 

Bit that caught my eye

Red Football JV had £519m of secured bank loans, on which it paid £45.4m.

 

And it had £175.5m of so-called payment-in-kind notes, where the interest is rolled up into the principal rather than paid in cash. The interest rate on these is 14.25%.

 

So the total annual interest bill was just under £70m (including rolled-up interest).

 

£70m that should be going to the club each year, but is going on nothing but keeping them in business.

[Cunny]

I have been coming on these forums since about 1998 and every year the mancs have been in decline or about to fall according to the loons on here.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[CarraLegend]

They have been written off to easily, though I think that was to do with the playing side ie so and so is to old now, Ferguson will die soon, this time though it's because they're in debt up to their eyeballs, got a world record transfer fee and spent f*** all after it which does indicate they're struggling bigtime.

 

Not that we'll take advantage because we're in the same situation from a worse starting point.

[Benzo-13]

The debt is gonna kill them gradually. They're an unbuyable club right now.

Vidic out next and they've practically no midfield.

 

Not over but if Real get their transfer wishes this summer then is cya Mancs.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

 

should know better by now

[Benzo-13]

 

should know better by now

 

Nah, their manager is getting older and more rancid..

[Rimbeux]

Not Just Us

 

Bit that caught my eye

 

 

£70m that should be going to the club each year, but is going on nothing but keeping them in business.

 

 

At least they can say they spent it on players, not owners

[Ronnie Whelan]

Would Rooney actually move to Madrid?

[Jarg Armani]

Would Rooney actually move to Madrid?

 

 

Always remember Elisha on here saying that Rooney is obsessed with Real.

 

It stuck with me.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Really? Now thats interesting.

 

 

He is a mercenary c*** too which compounds my interest.

[muleskinner]

His missus doesn't strike me as the sort to move to Madrid with a young family. The pissing off of the Mancs factor would be great to witness though if they lost their 2 best players to them in 2 seasons.

[Ronnie Whelan]

So if I killed Rooneys kids would he move to Spain?

[anfield11]

His missus doesn't strike me as the sort to move to Madrid with a young family. The pissing off of the Mancs factor would be great to witness though if they lost their 2 best players to them in 2 seasons.

 

 

Do they play AC Milan in the next round of the Champions League? If they do, the way AC are playing today they'll get ripped apart. Ambrosini as been immense and it would be 4-1 after 50 minutes if Ronaldinho hadn't missed a penalty.

 

Do they play AC Milan in the next round of the Champions League? If they do, the way AC are playing today they'll get ripped apart. Ambrosini as been immense and it would be 4-1 after 50 minutes if Ronaldinho hadn't missed a penalty.

 

 

4-1 now at 60 minutes

[Knoxy]

All the top 4 have declined this season, the league will almost be won on default

 

Our team/form from last season would have walked it

 

Probably

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

So if I killed Rooneys kids would he move to Spain?

[Raj]

So if I killed Rooneys kids would he move to Spain?

 

Just kill him - you will get more satisfaction.

[NWR]

Yep, pretty much.

 

His "im happy with my squad so wont be spending" is laughable and I'd be surprise if even the thick, clueless c**** that support that club cant see straight through it.

 

We did see right through it. We all know they used the money to service the debt. We are not like Liverpool fans like you who allow their managers to pull the wool over your eyes and hoodwink you for 5 or 6 years you dope.

 

BTW we have been in decline for the last two years, has it took till now for you to suss it out?

[CarraLegend]

We did see right through it.

 

Thats basically what I said you f***ing bellend.

 

"We are not like Liverpool fans". You got that right!!

Edited January 6, 2010 by CarraLegend

[Benzo-13]

We are not like Liverpool fans like you who allow their managers to pull the wool over your eyes and hoodwink you for 5 or 6 years you dope.

Figured out who pocketed their percentage of the inflated Portugese transfers yet?

[dorgie]

Figured out who pocketed their percentage of the inflated Portugese transfers yet?

 

 

[Raj]

Figured out who pocketed their percentage of the inflated Portugese transfers yet?

 

Superb