Letting the heart rule the head

[Mr. Biscan]

Gerard Houllier, the man who once lectured in Liverpool and who many perceived at the time to be the 'epitome' of the Liverpool Way. A Man who gave LFC it's honour back, but was part of a period which saw most of it taken back.

 

We as Liverpool Fans are generally faithful, we stand up for our own in the face of adversity and lies. We look to defend when criticised and always stand by our own. A two fingered salute the establishment. Even when s*** hit the fan with the likes of Houllier and Roy Evans a large proportion of our fans where faithful to the end, however at what cost?

 

The Liverpool Way is a term branded about a lot by fans, the press and managers alike. Other than being a website and a fanzine. What is the Liverpool way? You ask one fan what it is, and you ask another and you will probably get two totally different responses. Personally, I think whatever the Liverpool Way is, it isn't a tool, it isn't a methodology, not any more, not since Shanks and Paisley, it's nothing more than a loose term to describe ones own feelings towards Liverpool FC. I always believed LFC was different to all other clubs, I suppose you ask a Fulham fan for example and he'll tell you the same thing, but with ourselves I just see this long list of honours both physically and in terms of being an honourable club. There is something special about this club, whether that is the 'Liverpool Way' I have no idea, but when you follow this club the sacrifices that many people have made for this club it all seems to show the importance that the club has with many peoples lives.

 

This season has seen us in one of the worst runs since the 'Darkest days of Houllier'. We play awful football, our team is performing worse than it should be, and all after one of the most successful campaigns since we last won the league. Are we just in the middle of a full cycle, has our best chance to win the league gone for good, and are the similarities with Houllier's last years simply too strong to be 'similarities'?

 

Everyone remembers when it went wrong with Houllier, or at least many people feel as if they know it went wrong. We stood by him for a while, we gave him the benefit of the doubt, after all this was a man who 'Gave us our pride back'. However, the rest is history and he never recovered.

 

I have stated before the similarities between both reigns, but one thing which convinced me this is going the same way is the posting. Not just on this, but on every other Liverpool forum.

 

I see posts defending the manager, which I myself have no problem with but it gets to the point where it is almost mind-numbingly frustrating to read, it isn't really about defending the manager. It goes back to my original points, it's a two fingered salute to the establishment. I am specifically talking about punditry, and Andy Gray.

 

Now look, Andy Gray, he's neither here or there for me, he's a product, he's marmite, he says some things that make sense, and he chats some absolute horses***. With Andy Gray, the truth usually hurts, but the one thing I notice about him is that he knows the way, but doesn't know how to drive the car.

 

Take for example, the 'Zonal Marking' argument. I myself have no problem with it, it's a proven system and has worked many times for us. However this season, it hasn't don't ask me why, but it just hasn't and we are now into December and it looks as if WE MIGHT actually be back to normal, although thats too early to indicate just yet. I have read many posts criticising Andy Gray but I find myself saying 'Hang on, he may not know the solution, but we do have a problem, why is our questioning aimed at this man but not Benitez' Andy Gray in many peoples eyes is that 'establishment' he's part of that awful, nasty band of b******s that are really nasty to our manager'. But we need to get it into our head IMO that we are currently in the middle of one of our worst runs going, questions are always going to be asked, and they are always going to be asked at the biggest clubs.

 

Now I couldn't go this far without mentioning the owners, and as the cancer as I believe they are, we still need to get back to basics, we are not accountants, Net Spend, wages etc. Football isn't that complicated, you can point to other clubs, but one thing has stood that we are still one of the biggest clubs in the land, with the best players at our disposal, make no mistake we are still the club that many clubs admire and strive to emulate.

 

We finished 2nd last year, it wasn't an over-achievement, we where exactly where we needed to be in terms of a '5 Year Plan'. Don't let finances dictate expectations, we did well last season, and we could have done better. Skip forward to this summer, we lost Alonso however that being said he didn't star in our win v United. Anyway we sold Alonso, replaced him with Aquilani and strengthened our defence. The title winners United lost the best player in the world, replaced him with a winger from Wigan and an injury prone relegated striker in Owen. That is essentially what happened last summer. Now how come we are worse? How come we are now in this position. It isn't the owners, the owners....you know what, f*** it you know the story and the arguments of this season...So I'll skip to the end.

 

When we sacked Houllier we went down the same route as we did when we first got him in. 'The 5 Year Plan' ever since we last won the league, each manager has been given the 5 year plan, the 5 year plan to deliver the league. Each manager nearly coming close to winning it, but always having different, fatal flaws. My question is now, do we go against 'The Liverpool Way'? Do we go against the mythical methods that are supposed to bring us the league, but haven't since 1990? Football is a changed game, especially in this league, you earn nothing but pointless brownie points striving to be different but always falling short. Are we giving Benitez more time because people feel we are duty bound because people believe in these methods, or are we giving him it because we believe he can rectify this situation?

 

Or are we simply going around in an endless cycle, one step foward, two steps back 5 more years and a terrible last two. Have we been in this situation before? Is it about time we took ANOTHER approach, is it about time we tried something different, is it about time we actually put the CLUB first?

 

I admire loyalty, I always have done and always will do, but I find myself falling out of love with the manager, with the team just like I did with Houllier, I find myself looking at the side and going 'Why the f*** aren't we doing better?'

 

I want to be proven wrong, but I feel as If I've been down this muddy, dark road before. Big wins against Everton and United pale into insignificance when compared to losses v Villa and Fiorentina.

 

5 Years down the line, this isn't good enough

 

7 Years ago, we gave Houllier more time, and found ourselves worse off.

 

Is it about time, we actually done something different, is it about time 'The Liverpool Way' was used as motivation for the club, rather than the manager? I really don't know where I am going with this, so I just leave you with a simple opinion.

 

We are going back to the days of Houllier, another manager could have done better with what he has, if we don't get rid of Benitez soon it will be too late, we need to make a decision fast before we get too far away that we need to go back to the 5 Year Plan.

[Frosty Jack]

So why exactly did you feel the need to start a new topic for this?

[£440,000]

Seven years ago we were two years away from winning the Champions League.

[Gunga Din]

So why exactly did you feel the need to start a new topic for this?

 

and why did you feel the need to bump it back to the top when it had almost fallen off the front page?

[Red Kent]

So why exactly did you feel the need to start a new topic for this?

 

The same need that you felt in replying to it.

[Frosty Jack]

The same need that you felt in replying to it.

 

what next, a thread about heysel used as a backdrop to call for the managers sacking?

[Mr. Biscan]

My posts are now moderated Negativland.

 

Your gripe should not be with me, but the people who think this sort of posting is acceptable.

[Gunga Din]

what next, a thread about heysel used as a backdrop to call for the managers sacking?

 

classy

[Red Kent]

what next, a thread about heysel used as a backdrop to call for the managers sacking?

 

That's in good taste isn't it.

[Frosty Jack]

classy

 

thanks. wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the next half dozen.

[anny road]

i'm saying f*** all

 

i am in a good mood tonight

[Gunga Din]

thanks. wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the next half dozen.

 

it would surprise me. but why you'd want to even want to bring up the deaths of 39 people in a petty point scoring exercise says more about you than it will ever say about Ant

Edited December 12, 2009 by Gunga Din

[Frosty Jack]

it would surprise me. but why you'd want to even want to bring up the deaths of 39 people in a petty point scoring exercise says more about you than it will ever say about Ant

 

be quiet, who's point scoring now?

[FC Showster]

another manager could have done better with what he has

 

Better with what he has? Let's look at what he has in a game where money talks

 

£80m a season less than Chelsea

£60m less over the last two season than United which includes the sale of Ronaldo for £80m

 

 

I'd love to see a league table of money spent and how it compares to the actual league table over 38 games. I have a hunch that it has some similarities

 

 

 

*figures include wages based on 07/08 season

[Red Kent]

If anyone has a problem with the contents of Ant's posts, can they please direct them to the moderators and owners of this site as all of Antony's posts have to be approved before they appear.

 

I was not aware of this.

[anny road]

to be honest, and this might sound a tad rich

 

Ant should be allowed to post what he likes, he is big and ugly enough to stand by what he says......he defends himself. there is no problem there

 

I just think the amount of new posts saying virtually the same thing is the issue.......these threads descend quickly into people with polar opinions, name calling

 

and yes, I am aware I am a part of the problem

[oakie bob]

to be honest, and this might sound a tad rich

 

Ant should be allowed to post what he likes, he is big and ugly enough to stand by what he says......he defends himself. there is no problem there

 

I just think the amount of new posts saying virtually the same thing is the issue.......these threads descend quickly into people with polar opinions, name calling

 

and yes, I am aware I am a part of the problem

 

Yes and Yes but I have missed Ants posted, at least he spoke from the heart and reminds me of the way I was and felt about Liverpool at his age and we where Champions every year when I was that young

[Maldini]

[Jiggy Hates Jazz]

This is where I stopped reading

 

Gerard Houllier,

 

 

Better with what he has? Let's look at what he has in a game where money talks

 

£80m a season less than Chelsea

£60m less over the last two season than United which includes the sale of Ronaldo for £80m

I'd love to see a league table of money spent and how it compares to the actual league table over 38 games. I have a hunch that it has some similarities

*figures include wages based on 07/08 season

 

 

P.s. I agree with everything you said

[BG]

Or are we simply going around in an endless cycle

 

I want to be proven wrong

 

Point 1 above: yes, absolutely. I think you've got it: you post something saying you want him out, others respond with well-reasoned and articulate posts as to why that makes no sense. You then respond to well argued posts with a churlish comment. Thread descends into name calling. Wait a few days/wait for a game we haven't won and then you post something saying you want him out...

 

Point 2 above: you have been, numerous times in various threads. Not least when you asserted that Rafa had not really over-achieved at Valencia and when you argued that getting to the European Cup Final in 2007 did not represent over-achievement.

 

That's me done for this thread.

[muleskinner]

Its a nonsense this.

[Gunga Din]

be quiet, who's point scoring now?

 

you are. you could have let the thread disappear onto the next page. it was 2 or 3 from the bottom, but no, you drag it to the top in order to say nothing of worth to try and start a row.

[Hightown Phil]

Why do you keep wittering on about Gerard Houllier?

[Frosty Jack]

you are. you could have let the thread disappear onto the next page. it was 2 or 3 from the bottom, but no, you drag it to the top in order to say nothing of worth to try and start a row.

 

No, I posted the same query in response to this as any repeated topic would get, this isn't a special case.

You watched it drop down there did you? and hoped nobody would respond? why was that?

[Mr. Biscan]

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