Debrecan game plus news about Lyon and Fiorentina

[Toni]

I really dont fancy our financial plights if we fail to progress in the CL.

 

If we go through, mark my words, we ll win it!

 

However if i was Lyon s manager i wouldnt give a flying f*** and i would probably rest some key players in this match, which is reall bad news for us.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Toni

[richwilks]

I fancy Lyon to get at least a draw. Although they looked pretty s*** against us last game and Fiorentina took us apart. We're f***ed.

[GWistooshort]

The Times

November 24, 2009

 

Fiorentina raise stakes in the push for qualification

Gabriele Marcotti, European Football Correspondent

 

“The biggest game of the season.” That’s how Cesare Prandelli, the Fiorentina coach, described Tuesday night’s clash with Lyons. Indeed, Florentines have taken up the club’s call to decorate windows, balconies and terraces in the Tuscan city with purple and white banners to underscore the importance of the clash with the French giants. Yet whether Lyons will enter the Stadio Artemio Franchi with the same do-or-die spirit remains to be seen.

 

The Ligue 1 club are in the enviable position of having already qualified for the knockout phase of the Champions’ League. Claude Puel, their coach, insists that they will field a full-strength side but, in fact, even a defeat tonight could still see them top the group, provided that they beat Debrecen, who have yet to win a match, on December 9 at the Stade de Gerland.

 

But might the French side be overcome by the temptation of knocking out Liverpool, a European heavyweight, simply by putting in a less-than-stellar performance against Fiorentina?

 

“Don’t worry, we will play our normal game because we want to reach our objective, which is to finish top of the group,” Puel said. “And yes, I’m aware that if we get a good result in Florence it will leave Liverpool with a chance to qualify.”

 

The problem for Puel is that he does not really have a choice about whether or not to field an understrength side, particularly in defence.

 

Both right backs, François Clerc and Anthony Réveillère are sidelined, as is Cleber Anderson, the Brazilian central defender. To make matters worse, Maxime Gonalons, Mathieu Bodmer and Jérémy Toulalan, utility players who have deputised in central defence of late are also out.

 

The job of partnering Cris, the veteran Brazilian defender, will probably fall to Jean-Alain Boumsong, the former Newcastle United player, who returned to action only at the weekend after a three-month injury layoff.

 

Lyons were disappointing at the weekend, drawing 1-1 away to Grenoble, Ligue 1’s bottom club and a team who gained only their second point of the season. They remain joint-second, a point behind Auxerre. “We basically came up short in every department,” Puel said. “I’m counting on the fact that things will be different in the Champions’ League.”

 

The good news for Lyons is that Fiorentina are facing their own injury concerns. Adrian Mutu, the former Chelsea striker, is definitely out after surgery on his knee, while Stevan Jovetic, the 19-year-old who was so impressive against Liverpool, is only just returning from injury.

 

“It’s unthinkable that Jovetic plays from the start, he hasn’t trained in three weeks,” Prandelli said on Monday. “The most I can do is put him on the bench.”

 

Fiorentina will thus likely deploy Alberto Gilardino as a lone striker, with Mario Santana, ordinarily a winger, switched to a more central position.

 

Fiorentina lost at the weekend to Parma, 3-2, in a breathless, end-to-end match in which Gilardino scored twice. Prandelli admitted after the match that perhaps his squad had been thinking ahead to the match against Lyons. “They’re only human,” he said. They are sixth in Serie A at present, 11 points behind José Mourinho’s Inter Milan.

 

“I’m not concerned with what Lyons do, I’m assuming they’re coming here to win,” Prandelli said. “I know they did not play well at the weekend, but that means nothing. How many times have you seen a team underperform on Saturday and be devastating on Tuesday?”

 

Liverpool will be hoping that the performance against Grenoble was just a blip as far as Lyons are concerned. Otherwise, Fiorentina’s visit to Anfield next month will be meaningless.

 

Kings of Lyons

Hugo Lloris The 22-year-old has established himself as France’s No 1 and one of the very best goalkeepers on the continent. He may be France’s greatest goalkeeper since Joël Bats (and, yes, that includes Fabien Barthez).

 

Cris The Brazilian central defender knows all the tricks of the trade and his battle with Alberto Gilardino will be central to events. Both men are well acquainted with the “dark arts”.

 

Jean Makoun Fiorentina can get physical in midfield, and the Cameroon holding midfield player will need to provide plenty of cover for a makeshift defence. Adrian Mutu’s absence is a plus, but Fiorentina have no shortage of tricky dribblers who love to cut inside and run at people.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle6929021.ece

[GWistooshort]

The Guardian

Monday 23 November 2009

 

Fiorentina's poor record against Lyon offers hope to Liverpool

Paolo Bandini

 

• Fiorentina without Adrian Mutu and Stevan Jovetic

• Lyon can secure top spot with a home win

 

Liverpool's Champions League fate may be out of their hands but that is not to say it has already been decided. Fiorentina would need to beat Lyon at Stadio Artemio Franchi tomorrow night to be sure of reaching the knock-out stage at the Premier League side's expense and, if recent history is anything to go by, that is certainly not a foregone conclusion. After being drawn in the same group last year, Fiorentina and Lyon have faced each other three times in this competition over the past 15 months, and so far the Italians' record reads: drawn one, lost two. When the two sides met in Florence in the fifth game of the group stage last season Fiorentina knew they needed a win to have any hopes of reaching the knock-out stages. They lost 2-1.

 

That was with something approaching a full-strength side, a luxury the Fiorentina manager, Cesare Prandelli, has already acknowledged he will not have at his disposal tomorrow night. The former Chelsea striker Adrian Mutu, who tore the meniscus in his knee earlier this month, was ruled out of this game by his manager on Sunday, as was his most likely replacement, Stevan Jovetic – the scorer of both Fiorentina's goals against Liverpool in September – though the latter has since trained and still hopes to be involved. The centre-back Alessandro Gamberini is also out injured.

 

"We are better than last season, this squad has matured a great deal," said the Fiorentina captain, Dario Dainelli, when reminded of last year's defeat to Lyon. But in the league there has been scant evidence of improvement.

 

After a 3-2 defeat to newly-promoted Parma on Saturday, Fiorentina sit sixth, two points worse off than they were at the corresponding point last term. Many fans are frustrated at the club's failure to reinvest more than a fraction of the €20.5m they received when selling Felipe Melo to Juventus in the summer. A defence that had given up five goals in two Champions League games against Debrecen was opened up far too easily by Parma, and Prandelli will be all too aware that Lyon have scored at least once in every Champions League game they have played since the 2007-08 season. That puts a lot of pressure on Gilardino – sent off in the first leg for what was ruled to be an elbow on Jérémy Toulalan – who is likely to play alone up front in the absence of Mutu and Jovetic.

 

Lyon, however, have injuries of their own to contend with, and are likely to be without midfielders Maxime Gonalons and Toulalan, full-backs Anthony Réveillère and François Clerc and centre-back Mathieu Bodmer. Although they sit third in Ligue 1, Claude Puel's side are also coming off a disappointing result, having conceded a late equaliser to draw 1-1 with a last-placed Grenoble team who had previously claimed one point from 12 games.

 

The French side have already qualified but their captain, Cris, insisted that did not mean they would take their foot off the pedal tomorrow. "The objective was to qualify, now we have the chance to get first place," he said. "It will be hard because Fiorentina want to book their place. We're expecting a very physical match."

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/no...hampions-league

[stressederic]

Would I be correct in saying that if (big word) we beat Debrecen and Fiorentina lose against Lyon, it puts it right back into our hands and we'll simply need to beat Fiorentina regardless of the actual scoreline?

[Rimbeux]

Would I be correct in saying that if (big word) we beat Debrecen and Fiorentina lose against Lyon, it puts it right back into our hands and we'll simply need to beat Fiorentina regardless of the actual scoreline?

 

Yep

[GWistooshort]

Would I be correct in saying that if (big word) we beat Debrecen and Fiorentina lose against Lyon, it puts it right back into our hands and we'll simply need to beat Fiorentina regardless of the actual scoreline?

 

Yes currently Fiorentina have 9 points & we have 4 points so we would be 1 point ahead of them

[Swipe]

Four points after four games. Jesus.

 

So if it's a draw in Italy tonight and we win in Hungary, then we have to beat Fiorentina by two clear goals in the last match to go through?

[Gerry]

Four points after four games. Jesus.

 

So if it's a draw in Italy tonight and we win in Hungary, then we have to beat Fiorentina by two clear goals in the last match to go through?

 

Three clear goals. Unless me absolutely muller Debrecen.

[GWistooshort]

So if it's a draw in Italy tonight and we win in Hungary, then we have to beat Fiorentina by two clear goals in the last match to go through?

 

If Fiorentina draw with Lyon & we beat them by 2 clear goals we have to have beaten Debrecen by 4 clear goals to go through because 2nd place in the group will be decided on overall goal difference

 

If Fiorentina draw with Lyon & we beat Debrecen by less than 4 clear goals we have to beat Fiorentina by 3 clear goals to go through because 2nd place will be decided on goal difference from our matches against Fiorentina

 

If Fiorentina lose to Lyon we 'just' have to beat Debrecen & Fiorentina (regardless of the scores) to go through as we will have 1 more point than Fiorentina

 

If Fiorentina beat Lyon or we fail to beat Debrecen then we can't go through

 

More details HERE

Edited November 24, 2009 by GWistooshort

[Gilps]

So our hopes partially rest on a half fit Boumsong. What could possibly go wrong?

[Marvin]

Please stop giving me hope

[Red Kent]

If two teams are tied, games between both teams will decide who goes through like it was a knock-out tie over two legs.

 

If both of those games ended equal. ie 0-0 and 0-0, or 1-0 and 1-0, then goal difference does come into account.

 

So the only way it would go to goal difference between us and Fiorentina would be a 2-0 win for us.

 

However for all this to happen, we need to beat Debreceni, which is not going to happen so I've wasted a few minutes typing this.

[_00_deathscar]

So clearly we should smash Debrecen 4-0 and Fiorentina 3-0, just to be safe.

[Metro]

Three clear goals. Unless me absolutely muller Debrecen.

 

 

That is precisely what we MUST do. We must score as many as we can just in case it does come to the final match. I can't see us beating Fiorentina by three clear goals - can you? So we need to do what we did to Hull. Smash them.

[GWistooshort]

If two teams are tied, games between both teams will decide who goes through like it was a knock-out tie over two legs.

 

If both of those games ended equal. ie 0-0 and 0-0, or 1-0 and 1-0, then goal difference does come into account.

 

So the only way it would go to goal difference between us and Fiorentina would be a 2-0 win for us.

 

 

UEFA's regulations (Paragraph 7.06) say that if teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine who goes through:

 

a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;

 

If Fiorentina draw with Lyon & we beat Debrecen & Fiorentina, us & Fiorentina would be level on 3 points each from our two matches between us.

 

b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;

 

A 2-0 win for us means we would be level with Fiorentina with 2 goals each, which is where the score against Debrecen comes into play (see d below).

 

A 3-0 win for us means we would have a superior goal difference to Fiorentina (3-2) from our matches between us & would therefore go through

 

If Fiorentina score at Anfield a 3-1 victory for us wouldn't be enough (we would have scored 3 goals each & they would go through on the away goal - see c below) therefore if they score we need to beat them by 3 clear goals.

 

c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question;

 

d) superior goal difference from all group matches played;

 

If we beat Fiorentina 2-0 we would need to have beaten Debrecen by 4 clear goals to have a superior overall goal difference to Fiorentina & therefore go through.

 

e) higher number of goals scored;

 

This would come into play if Fiorentina draw with Lyon & lose to us 2-0 & we beat Debrecen by 3 clear goals. At the moment Fiorentina have scored 11 goals while we have only scored 3 so it would take some pretty unlikely scores for us to go thorugh on this criteria (0-0 Fiorentina Lyon & us beating Debrecen 7-6).

 

f) higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question, as well as its association, over the previous five seasons

Edited November 24, 2009 by GWistooshort

[GWistooshort]

So if it's a draw in Italy tonight and we win in Hungary, then we have to beat Fiorentina by two clear goals in the last match to go through?

 

A correction to my previous reply - if Fiorentina & Lyon draw & we beat Debrecen beating Fiorentina by 2 clear goals is enough provided they don't score - if they score it is in effect an away goal (see criteria c in my post above) & then we need to beat them by 3 clear goals

[Stevie H]

l'equipe is saying that lyon might well leave lisandro out. possible team: Lloris - Gassama, Cris (cap.), Boumsong, A. Cissokho - Makoun, Källström, Pjanic - Bastos, B. Gomis, Govou.

 

enough to get at least a point against fiorentina but the defence is weakened and gilardino could have some fun.

[GWistooshort]

In case people didn't see these in the other thread

 

Click on the links below for clips from the pre-match press conference

 

Rafa (Sky) [1:39]

 

Rafa (BBC) [4:14] AUDIO

 

Carra (Sky) [1:36]

 

[surf]

if lyon get a point it's likely they'll win the group and theoretically have an easier passage through.

that's the hope i'm clinging too

[Sion]

Fiorentina would win even if they both had something to play for. 2.26 on Betfair is criminally good value.

[fred milne]

Over the last 5 years we've got used to regularly appearing in the latter stages of Champions League: the battles with Chelsea, the away trips to Italy and Spain, Athens and Istanbul.

 

Its a chastening thought but if either or both of the results go the wrong way tonight and our league form doesn't pick up then this may be the last meaningful Champions League fixture we play in for a while.

[Davvo]

Over the last 5 years we've got used to regularly appearing in the latter stages of Champions League: the battles with Chelsea, the away trips to Italy and Spain, Athens and Istanbul.

 

Its a chastening thought but if either or both of the results go the wrong way tonight and our league form doesn't pick up then this may be the last meaningful Champions League fixture we play in for a while.

 

nothing like a rallying call before a big game , and that's...........

[Sion]

Agger, Aurelio and Johnson play. Skrtel and Babel out

Looks like Insua LB. Aurelio LM

Ngog upfront

Edited November 24, 2009 by Sion

[Cunny]

Henry Winter tweet

 

Word that Agger, Johnson start...Aurelio left midfield. Carra cente-half. Benayoun on bench