Our use of the reserves

[Gunga Din]

Our reserve squad seems o be made up of a lot of players who never get near the first team, not even sat on the bench. our first team fringe players therefore, the likes of babel, Voronin, Cavalieri, Ngog, the Greek, Dossena, Degen etc, are therefore, when not in the first team, getting absolutely no football. Is it really therefore any surprise they look criminally off the pace when they play in the first team. is there an argument to restructure the way we use the ressies, and maybe go back to using it as a "second 11", using it like we used to, to promote and relegate players as they go in and out of form?

[Sion]

I think this is a very good point, I thought the same myself. I think the problem is we can't afford to risk them as they need to be on the bench. Obviously with the way reserve games are it might be considered a risk to have Voronin, Degen etc... playing on say a thursday when they're needed on the bench on the saturday.

[Mike]

Our reserve squad seems o be made up of a lot of players who never get near the first team, not even sat on the bench. our first team fringe players therefore, the likes of babel, Voronin, Cavalieri, Ngog, the Greek, Dossena, Degen etc, are therefore, when not in the first team, getting absolutely no football. Is it really therefore any surprise they look criminally off the pace when they play in the first team. is there an argument to restructure the way we use the ressies, and maybe go back to using it as a "second 11", using it like we used to, to promote and relegate players as they go in and out of form?

 

this is were money has been wasted.

 

however, i thought kyriagos was alright on saturday. he's good in the air.

[Toni]

he is as agile as a monkey and as fast as brn johnson used to run on drugs.

 

as 4th choice he s not a really bad option though

[Gunga Din]

this is were money has been wasted.

 

however, i thought kyriagos was alright on saturday. he's good in the air.

 

i'm not talking about individual players. but surely players like Dossena, Babel suffering by not playing any meaningful 11 aside football

[Gunga Din]

I think this is a very good point, I thought the same myself. I think the problem is we can't afford to risk them as they need to be on the bench. Obviously with the way reserve games are it might be considered a risk to have Voronin, Degen etc... playing on say a thursday when they're needed on the bench on the saturday.

 

can we afford to bring rusty out of form players into the team though Sion? the system we are using, IMO, isnt working

[Dan]

can we afford to bring rusty out of form players into the team though Sion? the system we are using, IMO, isnt working

 

Other teams manage it don't they?

[PaulM]

I think rafa is boss at buying top players, your £10 million + ones but he is less successful with the lower priced players when you have to pick a gem up for under £10 million

 

Reina and Benayoun are the only two I can think of who have turned out boss, the rest have failed to set the world alight. Agger as well maybe, if he can stay fit. The squad players he has bought arent the best like are they, our first 11 is the best in the league I think but under that we are very poor in almost every position

 

And as for younger players, he must have bought about 40 over the last few years and none of them as yet have made the step up apart from Insua nor do any of them look likely to be honest,

[Gunga Din]

Other teams manage it don't they?

 

do they though. do other teams have as many "class" internationals as we do. its not working for us at present, an thats all that matters

[Dan]

do they though. do other teams have as many "class" internationals as we do. its not working for us at present, an thats all that matters

 

I'm talking big 4 or 5 whatever you want to call it. It boils down to quality of the first team squad players again imo.

 

How many chelsea reserves break through? Not many as their first team squad is littered with quality who are able to step in when needed. Same with the mancs with maybe Arsenal being the exception. City did have a good reserve set up but they won't be breaking through anymore. I don't have a good grasp of other teams reserves set ups to be fair but that is my uneducated take on it.

 

There is also the question with wasters like Voronin and Babel as to whether a run out in the reserves is going to make one iota of difference. They probably wouldn't give a sh*t about it and toss it off.

[richwilks]

The reserves do need some players moved on. Plessis, Spearing, Threlfall, Darby and Brouwer are all players who are not good enough.

 

Pacheco, Amoo, Nemeth, Galacsi, Bouzanis and Ayala are all players who should be nearer the 1st team than they are in my opinion.

[Hobbsie]

i'm not talking about individual players. but surely players like Dossena, Babel suffering by not playing any meaningful 11 aside football

 

Don't see any harm in consistent bench players playing some part in reserve matches on a regular basis

[Flasher]

Rafa isn't rotating enough, so some are rusty.

[The Hitman]

There is also the question with wasters like Voronin and Babel as to whether a run out in the reserves is going to make one iota of difference. They probably wouldn't give a sh*t about it and toss it off.

That's exactly it,for the likes of them.

Would be useful for people like Dossena though,who I see as somebody who might actually try. Would also benefit the youngsters in the reserves too,playing alongside internationals.

[_00_deathscar]

I think rafa is boss at buying top players, your £10 million + ones but he is less successful with the lower priced players when you have to pick a gem up for under £10 million

 

Reina and Benayoun are the only two I can think of who have turned out boss, the rest have failed to set the world alight. Agger as well maybe, if he can stay fit. The squad players he has bought arent the best like are they, our first 11 is the best in the league I think but under that we are very poor in almost every position

 

And as for younger players, he must have bought about 40 over the last few years and none of them as yet have made the step up apart from Insua nor do any of them look likely to be honest,

 

Because what you pay for is generally what you get - Kuyt, Riera, Skrtel are all decent (if not better) players. Garcia was very useful, as were Arbeloa, Sissoko and Crouch. Bellamy was a 6/10er. Insua has potential, and Aurelio was free for a reason (namely, his injury record). Agger has the potential to be world class.

 

The likes of Kromkamp, Josemi, Nunez were all wheel and deal deals. Morientes was the only one that blatantly didn't work out.

[Lark]

The reserves do need some players moved on. Plessis, Spearing, Threlfall, Darby and Brouwer are all players who are not good enough.

 

Pacheco, Amoo, Nemeth, Galacsi, Bouzanis and Ayala are all players who should be nearer the 1st team than they are in my opinion.

 

disagree about threlfall. (or should i say reluctant to make a quick decision on him) He's only just come back from injury and had two very good games for the reserves at lb. Of course the german kid butchmann is making waves in that position for the youth side.

 

That aside yeah gunga i agree and made the point about voronin and bable playing games in another thread. They might think they are too good for the reserves(voronin especially) but a couple of 90 minutes under their belts could do wonders for them, playing at a level where the pressure is off and they can focus on their games and getting their confidence back.

[The Hitman]

Voronin's too good for nothing.

[David Hodgson]

Our reserve squad seems o be made up of a lot of players who never get near the first team, not even sat on the bench. our first team fringe players therefore, the likes of babel, Voronin, Cavalieri, Ngog, the Greek, Dossena, Degen etc, are therefore, when not in the first team, getting absolutely no football. Is it really therefore any surprise they look criminally off the pace when they play in the first team. is there an argument to restructure the way we use the ressies, and maybe go back to using it as a "second 11", using it like we used to, to promote and relegate players as they go in and out of form?

 

I agree. I mean, what is the point of us perservering with the likes of Brouwer who will clearly never play serious first team football ? I'd rather see the likes of Pacheco perform in the company of Babel, Voronin, Riera. Dossena and Degen every week. It would give a better indication as to their 'readiness'.

 

And we'd win the reserve league every years. ;-)

[Frosty Jack]

Isn't it just a fitness issue? the squads too thin to be risking those players in reserve games now?

[Guest PaulMcC]

Not many top teams play their non playing first teamers in the reserves.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

wow. I don't pay a great deal of attention to the ressies, so I'd asumed that Babel et al were getting ressie games.

 

Completely agree. They should be playing fairly regularly in the ressies, as it's not always a bad standard

[Guest PaulMcC]

I agree. I mean, what is the point of us perservering with the likes of Brouwer who will clearly never play serious first team football ? I'd rather see the likes of Pacheco perform in the company of Babel, Voronin, Riera. Dossena and Degen every week. It would give a better indication as to their 'readiness'.

 

And we'd win the reserve league every years. ;-)

 

I actually think Brouwer helps the players around him play bettter just cos he has a physical presence.

 

I think the reserves need a better version of him. Someone who holds it up, scores goals but is better than Brouwer.

[Guest PaulMcC]

wow. I don't pay a great deal of attention to the ressies, so I'd asumed that Babel et al were getting ressie games.

 

Completely agree. They should be playing fairly regularly in the ressies, as it's not always a bad standard

 

It is. It's way, way below the level of the first team.

[Gunga Din]

It is. It's way, way below the level of the first team.

 

 

it is, but when we were winning everything in the 70's and 80's, our ressies won everything. they had non first team players playing. when players then made the step up from ressies to first team, they were ready. think of the benefit to our kids playing in teh company of international players. and teh players who end up in the ressies, the ones who show a good attitude and desire to win whil eperforming well will be the ones we need to keep. it also keeps them closer to match fitness should we need to use them

 

plus bring the ressie games back to Anfield and have free admission

Edited November 2, 2009 by Gunga Din

[Guest PaulMcC]

They're free already for season ticket holders. Not great having it at Prenton Park but it's better than Warrington or Wrexham.

 

It'd be great if they played at Anfield but i doubt the club want the pitch being used too much. Although seeing how little the reserves play, the pitch shouldn't be a problem.

Edited November 2, 2009 by PaulMcC