Set piece mayham

[YNWAdownunder]

Im not sure if anyone else is noticing this but we seem very shaky at the back but also ineffective up the front. When other teams get corners etc they look dangerous and pressuring often for us the delivery is poor or there is noone there for a good delivery. Any suggestions on ways to fix either of these problems just interested in what people think ?

Edited September 3, 2009 by YNWAdownunder

[Snoeker]

re-sign David James

[spk]

tell carra not to stand in the middle of the f***ing goal in the way of reina

[Beardsley]

Keep the ball in the oppo's half.

[mathewbet1]

its all greek to me

[CarraLegend]

See if our midgets are allowed stilts at set pieces.

Edited September 3, 2009 by CarraLegend

[New York Red]

Simple.

 

Get rid of Carra. He's had it.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

  New York Red said:

Simple.

 

Get rid of Carra. He's had it.

 

That simple, is it?

[YNWAdownunder]

  New York Red said:

Simple.

 

Get rid of Carra. He's had it.

 

I think carragher does alot more for that back four than he takes away....may be a bit old but his ability to marshall them together i cant help but think they would be crashing into each other and running in circles without his direction

Edited September 5, 2009 by YNWAdownunder

[New York Red]

  John said:

That simple, is it?

 

Oh. And sign Georgio Chielini to replace him.

[New York Red]

  YNWAdownunder said:

I think carragher does alot more for that back four than he takes away....may be a bit old but his ability to marshall them together i cant help but think they would be crashing into each other and running in circles without his direction

 

They do now on set pieces. It's like we've regressed at times to the days when he scored two own goals in one game. He's screaming and shouting at everyone all the time but he slips up himself constantly. He slipped up on two of the goals last Saturday alone.

[fyds]

Whatever about Carra - I love him, but am well aware his time is slowly ebbing.

 

Interesting point this, as looking through older and recent games on my DVDR hard drive, I started making a mental note of how we are at the back in terms of set pieces etc - and apart from very recently, we're very good...what was of secondary interest, was who clears away the crosses from set pieces that Pepe doesn't get...guesses?

 

Surprisingly, the player who clears most set pieces with his head is Kuyt, then Skrtel, Torres, Arbeloa (as was) Carra, Gerrard, Riera and Lucas! I was surprised a bit at that.

[New York Red]

  fyds said:

Whatever about Carra - I love him, but am well aware his time is slowly ebbing.

 

Interesting point this, as looking through older and recent games on my DVDR hard drive, I started making a mental note of how we are at the back in terms of set pieces etc - and apart from very recently, we're very good...what was of secondary interest, was who clears away the crosses from set pieces that Pepe doesn't get...guesses?

 

Surprisingly, the player who clears most set pieces with his head is Kuyt, then Skrtel, Torres, Arbeloa (as was) Carra, Gerrard, Riera and Lucas! I was surprised a bit at that.

 

F*cking hell Fyds. Where do you get those stats from? That's very impressive!!! (Seriously)

 

But back to Carra. remember him when he was young? When his nickname was "Log". When he was a midfielder? When we had a back four that was all over the shop like the Keystone Cops, all running into each other? Then he transitioned back into the back four. Left back in preference over Zeige. Then over to right back. Gradually easing into centre back. He gave 150% and was more awesome as the years went on.

 

But Carra played a LOT of games. And he didn't just cruise. He gave everything he had. but that meant he was due for a precipitous decline.

 

I think we're at that point.

[fyds]

  New York Red said:

F*cking hell Fyds. Where do you get those stats from? That's very impressive!!! (Seriously)

 

But back to Carra. remember him when he was young? When his nickname was "Log". When he was a midfielder? When we had a back four that was all over the shop like the Keystone Cops, all running into each other? Then he transitioned back into the back four. Left back in preference over Zeige. Then over to right back. Gradually easing into centre back. He gave 150% and was more awesome as the years went on.

 

But Carra played a LOT of games. And he didn't just cruise. He gave everything he had. but that meant he was due for a precipitous decline.

 

I think we're at that point.

Just observation watching old games on the box mate - listening to all the crap about zonal marking which was winding bme up, I just started taking notice of how we cleared and coped- then noticed it was not always the CB's who got crosses away and in fact, it wasn't usually them!

 

Another odd thing I noticed - maybe a training ground thing or just how it works out, but typical anyway...cross comes in, ball is headed out, usually in the direction to the extreme corner of the box that the attack is coming from, we then break in threes - player one (often Gerrard or Masch) plays it foward, just outside the centre circle to player two (usually Kuyt or Alonso) who plays it out wide in the same direction down the line or diagonally to other side, (usually Riera or Arbeloa (now Johnson)) throughout this, Torres either has a lay off touch in the middle or not at all and just gets to the other end asap and the next touch is ninto the box, the edge of etc...basically, we frequently turn set piece defence into fast attack within about 4 passes and 10 seconds - and often score as a result. If you play this out in your head you'll see the pattern I mean - it's quite something - as is the fact that the move often starts with Kuyt getting the first header out, then he runs to make the midfield lay-off, and then is in there for the attack when the final ball comes in....puts in a shift does that lad.

[John am Rhein]

  fyds said:

Surprisingly, the player who clears most set pieces with his head is Kuyt, then Skrtel, Torres, Arbeloa (as was) Carra, Gerrard, Riera and Lucas! I was surprised a bit at that.

 

probably because the opposing team will aim to get the ball in an area defended by someone relatively weak in the air

[smicer07]

Sign taller players? The reason why we struggle on set pieces at both ends is simple- we're small!

[John am Rhein]

  smicer07 said:

Sign taller players? The reason why we struggle on set pieces at both ends is simple- we're small!

 

Smaller than average?

[fyds]

I would have thought overall, we were a pretty tall team - only Insua and maybe Aurelio and Lucas (who has a good leap on him anyway) are notably shorter than the rest of the squad.

[Knox_Harrington]

  fyds said:

I would have thought overall, we were a pretty tall team - only Insua and maybe Aurelio and Lucas (who has a good leap on him anyway) are notably shorter than the rest of the squad.

And Masch and Yossi.

 

Plus we don't have one or two aerially dominant players other sides have.

[fyds]

  Knox_Harrington said:

And Masch and Yossi.

 

Plus we don't have one or two aerially dominant players other sides have.

Masch yes- you're right there - but Yossi is another witha decent leap on him. I suppose we could now cleass Kyrgiakos as aerially dominant? Maybe Skrtel?

Edited September 5, 2009 by fyds

[Farmer's Tan]

i don't think skrtel is close to being aerially dominant,hyypia was this new guy looks like he is but i don't qualify skrtel in the same league in the air.

[Logic]

My solution would be to push the defensive line some way up the field. I just can't understand why we back down to our penalty area when the opposition has a freekick in their own half or near the centre of the field. Just doesn't make sense.

 

Push the defence at least 10m further upfield then have Reina clear the ball if it's a ball behind the defence.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Logic

[Molby]

  Logic said:

My solution would be to push the defensive line some way up the field. I just can't understand why we back down to our penalty area when the opposition has a freekick in their own half or near the centre of the field. Just doesn't make sense.

 

Push the defence at least 10m further upfield then have Reina clear the ball if it's a ball behind the defence.

 

 

if you put the defensive line 28 metres up the pitch when the oppo has a freekick near the half way line then all they need to do is chip and charge

 

you can't rely on the keeper being last man in that situation, in the sense of having to sweep up outside his box

[John am Rhein]

How far forward/back should the defence line up, though?

[Red Kent]

Pepe Reina is four out of five seasons won the Golden Gloves for the most clean sheets. So that must mean that we have defended pretty damn well in all that time.

 

Rafa has rotated and has hardly ever picked the same team twice on the run, although I do remember him doing it on what would have been his 100th rotation

 

Zonal marking is never a problem until we conceed a goal and rotation is never a problem when we win.

 

When other teams conceed goals from set pieces, do they moan about man-to-man marking ? no.