Fear over our squad depth

[David Hodgson]

Been thinking about all the panicking going on about how thin our squad is looking. Maybe it's the myopia born of getting a nice away win, but I'm feeling more positive about our prospects. Of course we should have added the two more quality players that would probably have seen us installed as favourites for the league (given United's lack of spending and our 86 point finish), but regardless I'm not sure we're that badly off.

 

I don't think anyone questions that we can stand toe to toe with any of our rivals in terms of the quality of our 1-11 players. I think United would take more of our players, now, than we'd take of theirs, and the same can be said of Chelsea.

 

Past the first eleven, if you look at who didn't start on Saturday, it doesn't look half bad : Benayoun, Aquilani, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Dossena and Babel. I think all that's really missing from that crop is a recognised quality striker. However, I think it's forgotten that Kuyt remains a real option upfront, and one that ususally delivers goals when played centrally. I wouldn't like to lose Torres to injury, but we proved we can cope without him last season, for long stretches.

 

I wonder with the wisdom of hindsight if Rafa now wouldn't have fought to keep Arbeloa and Hyypia, and taken a chance on Owen. At a net cost of virtually zero these small decisions could have added a significant extra layer of cover to our squad. Still, as it stands, and despite the latest lies from G & H, I think we have the squad and the team spirit to give this title a real go.

[honourablegeorge]

Don't see much to be positive about. I don't see us being six points better than Chelsea over the rest of the season. As I see it, the best we can do now is qualify for the CL, then sell mascherano, and try to get a couple of players in with that money. Otherwise, if we fail to qualify, and sell players to cover debt, and fall miles behind.

[Stevie H]

our squad depth is a disaster DH. we've got 14 players, a smattering of world class ones, a number of very good ones and a couple who can come in and do a job. compare us with real madrid, barcelona, inter, milan, juventus, united and chelsea, all of whom essentially have two full internationals for every position, and it's a joke.

 

and i don't think that 'I think United would take more of our players, now, than we'd take of theirs, and the same can be said of Chelsea' is true at all. they'd have torres and gerrard off us same as ever and maybe reina at united. see how johnson develops, maybe he becomes another.

 

edit - and i understand the attempt to be positive but i think we're in a right f***ing precarious state this season. players like voronin and babel shouldn't even be near the bench, and wouldn't be if we'd had any investment to kick on and make signings to improve the squad.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Stevie H

[kop205]

I wonder with the wisdom of hindsight if Rafa now wouldn't have fought to keep Arbeloa and Hyypia, and taken a chance on Owen. At a net cost of virtually zero these small decisions could have added a significant extra layer of cover to our squad.

 

Given as apparently everything we spent on wages was then deducted from the transfer budget, would we have been allowed to bring anyone else had we kept Arbeloa and Sami and brought Owen in?

 

I can see the sense in what you are saying but whether it could have worked out that way is a different matter.

 

I to an extent with your overall point - I don't think United have a particularly strong squad though I think Chelsea's is very good and if it comes down to strength on depth or if all three of us lose key players then I think they are best equipped to cope with that (though I'm not totally sure who/what they have upfront - they've generally looked a bit toothless in recent years when Drogba isn't playing/is sulking?).

 

More pressing for us than squad depth is the need to sort out our defending of set pieces. Whatever people may think about the likes of Lucas, or about Babel starting at Spurs and so on, they aren't the reason why we've lost games.

[Swagger]

Don't see much to be positive about. I don't see us being six points better than Chelsea over the rest of the season. As I see it, the best we can do now is qualify for the CL, then sell mascherano, and try to get a couple of players in with that money. Otherwise, if we fail to qualify, and sell players to cover debt, and fall miles behind.

 

Bloody hell. Let's just hand out the Premiership winners medals to the Chelsea players right now and be done with it.

[David Hodgson]

our squad depth is a disaster DH. we've got 14 players, a smattering of world class ones, a number of very good ones and a couple who can come in and do a job. compare us with real madrid, barcelona, inter, milan, juventus, united and chelsea, all of whom essentially have two full internationals for every position, and it's a joke.

 

and i don't think that 'I think United would take more of our players, now, than we'd take of theirs, and the same can be said of Chelsea' is true at all. they'd have torres and gerrard off us same as ever and maybe reina at united. see how johnson develops, maybe he becomes another.

 

edit - and i understand the attempt to be positive but i think we're in a right f***ing precarious state this season. players like voronin and babel shouldn't even be near the bench, and wouldn't be if we'd had any investment to kick on and make signings to improve the squad.

 

You're right in that I was feeling positive on the back of a re-assuring win, a good early morning run, and 36 hours without booze.

 

Having said that, 'disaster' ? I don't think so. Yes, I know, relative to what we expected back in May, it feels a bit like that. However I think perspective is distorted by current injuries. How buyant about our squad would we have felt coming into the last month or two of last season if we'd been shorn of Skrtel, Alonso, Agger and Aurelio ? That's effectively what we're facing now, if you read Aquilani for Alonso. We've got injuries. Squad's always seem thinner when that happens.

 

As for the strength of first 11 debate, I think United would take Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Torres and Gerrard ahead of their own current options. I also think they may view Benayoun, Kuyt, Agger, Carra and Skrtel as as least as good as the likes of Park, Valenica, Nani and Vidic.

 

From United, to improve our first 11, I'd only take Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick and Rooney.

[Andy @ Allerton]

our squad depth is a disaster DH. we've got 14 players, a smattering of world class ones, a number of very good ones and a couple who can come in and do a job. compare us with real madrid, barcelona, inter, milan, juventus, united and chelsea, all of whom essentially have two full internationals for every position, and it's a joke.

 

and i don't think that 'I think United would take more of our players, now, than we'd take of theirs, and the same can be said of Chelsea' is true at all. they'd have torres and gerrard off us same as ever and maybe reina at united. see how johnson develops, maybe he becomes another.

 

edit - and i understand the attempt to be positive but i think we're in a right f***ing precarious state this season. players like voronin and babel shouldn't even be near the bench, and wouldn't be if we'd had any investment to kick on and make signings to improve the squad.

 

 

Imagine winning a league with 14 players.

[CarraLegend]

our squad depth is a disaster DH.

 

Disaster? Lets not go overboard eh? We are light in a few positions but

 

 

Reina, Cav

 

Johnson - Carra, Skrtel, Agger, Kryi - Insua, Aurelio

 

Kuyt, Yossi - Lucas, Mascherano, Aquilani - Riera, Babel

 

Gerrard, Torres

 

Is definitely not disastrous. Just light in a couple of areas notably upfront.

[londonkopite]

After 5 years of buying mainly squad players and large quantities of players this is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in. When Rafa joined his strikers were Cisse, Baros, Pongolle etc... bar Torres who was a massive signing I can't say N'Gog and Voronin are much better than Baros or Pongolle. The same goes for the wide areas, how much better than Garcia and Cisse are Kuyt and Riera? This seasons squad situation is down to our signings nothing else, its not as if Arsenal, United and Chelsea have been breaking the bank is it?

[CarraLegend]

how much better than Garcia and Cisse are Kuyt and Riera?

 

A lot.

 

This seasons squad situation is down to our signings nothing else, its not as if Arsenal, United and Chelsea have been breaking the bank is it?

 

And the PR machine sucks another mug in.

[londonkopite]

A lot.

And the PR machine sucks another mug in.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say "a lot" especially given the number of goals and important goals Garcia and Cisse scored. Do we really need a PR machine to tell us that a***, Chelsea and United have spent less than us this summer?

[Earl Hafler]

our squad depth is a disaster DH. we've got 14 players, a smattering of world class ones, a number of very good ones and a couple who can come in and do a job. compare us with real madrid, barcelona, inter, milan, juventus, united and chelsea, all of whom essentially have two full internationals for every position, and it's a joke.

 

and i don't think that 'I think United would take more of our players, now, than we'd take of theirs, and the same can be said of Chelsea' is true at all. they'd have torres and gerrard off us same as ever and maybe reina at united. see how johnson develops, maybe he becomes another.

 

edit - and i understand the attempt to be positive but i think we're in a right f***ing precarious state this season. players like voronin and babel shouldn't even be near the bench, and wouldn't be if we'd had any investment to kick on and make signings to improve the squad.

 

 

I agree with that. The fact Voronin is back and playing just about says it all - we're short of about 3 or 4 players capable of starting a game if called upon. I don't think many on our bench are capable.

[CarraLegend]

Do we really need a PR machine to tell us that a***, Chelsea and United have spent less than us this summer?

 

What has what theyve spent got to do with anything though? Is it ok that our squad isnt strengthened because Man Utd didnt strengthen theirs or something?

 

Have you also noted the different tone from those clubs "We'll go and sign someone if we feel we need to" Liverpools is completely different, we are skint and have some w***** in the press telling us how big we've spent on agents fees and other such s****.

 

How you can whinge about what the manager have done when his transfer budget has been zero this summer is baffling.

[David Hodgson]

I agree with that. The fact Voronin is back and playing just about says it all - we're short of about 3 or 4 players capable of starting a game if called upon. I don't think many on our bench are capable.

 

Well, given that we started with a strong and effective line up against Bolton, had players been fit we could have put this lot on our bench : Benayoun, Aquilani, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Dossena and Babel.

 

Not bad at all. The glaring weakness is at centre forward, but as we play one up front that isn't as big a problem as it could be. Kuyt is a decent striker if Torres gets injured.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we have been mugged by the owners and should have had the money to add two more first teamers to this squad. I think that if Rafa had known what was going to happen to his budget he would not even have sold Keane, let alone Hyypia and Arbeloa.

[londonkopite]

What has what theyve spent got to do with anything though? Is it ok that our squad isnt strengthened because Man Utd didnt strengthen theirs or something?

 

Have you also noted the different tone from those clubs "We'll go and sign someone if we feel we need to" Liverpools is completely different, we are skint and have some w***** in the press telling us how big we've spent on agents fees and other such s****.

 

How you can whinge about what the manager have done when his transfer budget has been zero this summer is baffling.

 

We finished 2nd last season, our competitors haven't strengthed more than we have, so it should be game on. Football is a game played against other teams, so although we can be pissed off that we didn't get more money, we still signed players and spent more than our nearest rivals - for that reason we should be in with a good shout. It seems like people are already getting their excuses in early just in case we don't challenge for the league.

[londonkopite]

Well, given that we started with a strong and effective line up against Bolton, had players been fit we could have put this lot on our bench : Benayoun, Aquilani, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Dossena and Babel.

 

Not bad at all. The glaring weakness is at centre forward, but as we play one up front that isn't as big a problem as it could be. Kuyt is a decent striker if Torres gets injured.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we have been mugged by the owners and should have had the money to add two more first teamers to this squad. I think that if Rafa had known what was going to happen to his budget he would not even have sold Keane, let alone Hyypia and Arbeloa.

 

I think the general consensus is that Kuyt is anything but decent up front hence why he plays wide for club and country. Good back up but we are up s*** creek if we are relying on him to come in if Torres is out.

[CarraLegend]

We finished 2nd last season

 

Errr exactly and won nothing hence the need for a transfer budget to strengthen. I cant believe you cant grasp this.

[David Hodgson]

Don't see much to be positive about. I don't see us being six points better than Chelsea over the rest of the season. As I see it, the best we can do now is qualify for the CL, then sell mascherano, and try to get a couple of players in with that money. Otherwise, if we fail to qualify, and sell players to cover debt, and fall miles behind.

 

We started this season frustrated by our transfer policy, but we all knew that we virtually still had that 86 point squad intact. Are you seriously telling me that because of 2 early season blips that it's a given that we'll do well just to get top 4 ? We look weaker on paper because now one's really mentlaly factoring in Aquilani yet, but this guy is a £20mplus player. He's going to make a difference when he's ready. Had we kept Alonso and he been injured for 6 weeks we'd have been exactly the same boat now.

 

You'd think some of you had only been watching football for a couple of years or so with the dramatic statements being made. Spurs aren't going to finish top 4, and neither are Villa. Man City have a chance if Arsenal fade. Arsenal will fade, but to what degree, we don't yet know.

 

United have a great manager, a strong squad, but have been significantly weakened. Chelsea have barely strengthened, but replaced a great manager in Hiddink for an unknown quantity in premierhsip terms. Ancelotti has a track record, but not in title races in recent years. Arsenal without Adebayour are simply weaker. Of course we're all still a bit scared because we know we're skint, have seen City spend big, and still fear that all of the above have money to burn. Truth is that the respective squads are unlikely to change now, and relative to last season, and how our rivals have changed, we look in reasonable shape.

[Metro]

Don't see much to be positive about. I don't see us being six points better than Chelsea over the rest of the season. As I see it, the best we can do now is qualify for the CL, then sell mascherano, and try to get a couple of players in with that money. Otherwise, if we fail to qualify, and sell players to cover debt, and fall miles behind.

 

Sell Mascherano? Do me a favour. Do you honestly think that if Rafa sold Mascher he would be able to buy in a couple of quality players? Where have you been the past month? You don't think the Yanks won't do an Alonso and cream off some of the transfer money from Mascher's sale to service their debt.?? And as for the view that Garcia and Cisse are better than Kuyt and Riera, words fail me. Garcia was unpredictable and did some brilliant things - he also did some stupid things as well. Overall, they aren't in the same league as Kuyt and Riera.

[David Hodgson]

I think the general consensus is that Kuyt is anything but decent up front hence why he plays wide for club and country. Good back up but we are up s*** creek if we are relying on him to come in if Torres is out.

 

The 'Kuyt concensus' is coming up for being 2 years out of date. Last time he was a non-scoring forward he was a man playing without confidence and falling out of the national squad. His stint on the right has helped him get his mojo back, and when called to play centrally last season he did a job and scored goals. I think surrounded by the likes of Gerrrad, Aquilani, benayoun and Riera that Kuyt up front would do us in most games.

[londonkopite]

Errr exactly and won nothing hence the need for a transfer budget to strengthen. I cant believe you cant grasp this.

 

We have strengthened at right back and Rafa has sold the one player he has wanted to sell for near on 2 years for big money... so whats the problem? In the meantime our rivals have lost top quality players and haven't spent big in replacing them. We should be in a stronger position than we were last term - why can't you grasp that?

[Metro]

The 'Kuyt concensus' is coming up for being 2 years out of date. Last time he was a non-scoring forward he was a man playing without confidence and falling out of the national squad. His stint on the right has helped him get his mojo back, and when called to play centrally last season he did a job and scored goals. I think surrounded by the likes of Gerrrad, Aquilani, benayoun and Riera that Kuyt up front would do us in most games.

 

 

Agreed. And he had personal problems too, didn't he?

[londonkopite]

The 'Kuyt concensus' is coming up for being 2 years out of date. Last time he was a non-scoring forward he was a man playing without confidence and falling out of the national squad. His stint on the right has helped him get his mojo back, and when called to play centrally last season he did a job and scored goals. I think surrounded by the likes of Gerrrad, Aquilani, benayoun and Riera that Kuyt up front would do us in most games.

 

How many did he score in our thrashing of Newcastle when he played up front? I don't recall many games where has scored when played up front. Agree to disagree.

[CarraLegend]

Rafa has sold the one player he has wanted to sell for near on 2 years for big money... so whats the problem?

 

Haha are you serious? He's had no transfer budget, thats the problem!! f***ing hell.

[David Hodgson]

Sell Mascherano? Do me a favour. Do you honestly think that if Rafa sold Mascher he would be able to buy in a couple of quality players? Where have you been the past month? You don't think the Yanks won't do an Alonso and cream off some of the transfer money from Mascher's sale to service their debt.?? And as for the view that Garcia and Cisse are better than Kuyt and Riera, words fail me. Garcia was unpredictable and did some brilliant things - he also did some stupid things as well. Overall, they aren't in the same league as Kuyt and Riera.

 

Part of me really wonders how Rafa got himself mugged like he has been over the transfers. The fact that at the begining of the summer G & H's mouthpieces were touting net spends of £20m being available should have told him all he needed to know. At that stage he may well have asked 'but didn't I just get you £15m back on Keane ? Is my real net budget only £5m ?!?'

 

At the point of any future sale he needs to seek assurances that he can spend what he brings in. I'd want the replacements signed sealed and in the post before anyone walked out the gates at Melwood.