Cara's form

[marse]

I've been thinking this for a while now, alot of last season. Today again I thought Cara just isn’t playing well, once we have Agger and Skrtel fit they should be our first choice pairing. He's a yard slower and has no distribution ability.

 

Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

 

 

 

[carrafan]

  marse said:

I've been thinking this for a while now, alot of last season. Today again I thought Cara just isn’t playing well, once we have Agger and Skrtel fit they should be our first choice pairing. He's a yard slower and has no distribution ability.

 

Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

 

 

 

 

 

I think im the only one who thinks that he didnt particularly have a terribly bad game as everyone seems to think. Him and Masch had a good second half too. He's a bloody good reader of the game and we need him to set up a defence. His distribution might be poor, he might not be a threat during attacking set pieces but only when Skrtel and Agger reach his level of defending can other traits like quality on the ball, strenght in the air and age be taken into consideration.

 

FWIW, i think these two will take over sometime in the future but i do also have my doubts. Agger seems to be injured all the time and thats not a good trait for a first choice centreback. He needs to get his fitness issues sorted once and for all to be considered a genuine first choice alongside Skrtel who along with Carra already is.

 

Carra's age does seem to be catching up with him and he looked exhausted in the tail end of last season. so there is a definite chance that these two might become first choice by the end of the season.

 

I know im venturing away from the topic of discussion but it would be nice to know what the Agger situation with injuries is. He's decided to stay with us and signed a new deal but if he's going to have a lot of injury worres we definitely need a fourth choice centreback who'd reduce the load on Carra and Skrtel instead of having to rely on Ayala or Kelly.

[Barnesy_10]

he's not as quick, but he still reads the game well, but the deteriating pace means he has to use his arms more which he rarely gets awat with these days.

[schmuckdonald]

Skrtel and Agger will be eased into first choice CB pairing. They need someone to organise them, i'd imagine Skrtel is being groomed to take that mantle and Carragher will start to be used sparingly over the next couple of seasons.

 

Agger's injuries are a worry, mind.

[Swipe]

More than anything, we need Agger fit and in the team. His passing ability changes the way we can play.

[schmuckdonald]

To be fair, today was a bit of a freak occurence where all of our distrubutors were crocked. With Aurelio and Agger in the team we should be much better and i'm hoping AA as well. They give a better balance to the side. And starting Yossi will make us fair better as well.

 

This post makes me miss Xabi.

Edited August 16, 2009 by robmcburger

[New York Red]

I think he tries to do too much. When he went for that ball today, it was really Skrtel's ball. He's shouting and screaming all the time and just too wound up. He has to start getting eased into a more subordinate role.

 

The injuries to Agger are a real issue though. He physiology is really messed up with the hamstring and back problems. There is some deap-seated problem there.

[Benzo-13]

Carra's form has been ropey for ages.

Today he was a calamity.

[Akadimi]

I agree Carrafan,

 

And I'd like to say that Carrra is not the best, but he is bloody and has soul

 

generally, we are still in the beginning

[Kite]

Load of bollix being talked about Carra today. It's f***ing "Carra"! When is he supposed to have transmogrified into some kind of passing genius? He blocks balls with his nuts and nuts the studs off other people's boots. That's his thing. If you don't like it, blame the manager for putting him there in the first place.

[Benzo-13]

  Mr Kite said:

Load of bollix being talked about Carra today. It's f***ing "Carra"! When is he supposed to have transmogrified into some kind of passing genius? He blocks balls with his nuts and nuts the studs off other people's boots. That's his thing. If you don't like it, blame the manager for putting him there in the first place.

 

Punting the ball anywhere and giving the opposition back possession regularly has gotta stop.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

Carra was alarmingly bad today, but at least he was constantly talking to Johnson. If Carra hadn't played, none of out other centre-halves would have been able to do that.

 

It's also clear that we need another option there. Not slagging off Ayala here, but some of us spent all summer saying we needed a 4th centre-half, while others were saying "we have 3 - two can play, and one can sit on the bench". Well, first match of the season we have to bring Ayala on. Not that that's why we were so poor today though.

[carrafan]

  Benzo-13 said:

Punting the ball anywhere and giving the opposition back possession regularly has gotta stop.

 

 

Lucas and Mascherano werent really crying out to recieve the ball and even when we did somehow had the ball in midfield we usually lost it within seconds, trying to bring Torres into the game.

 

There seemed to be an improvement in Carra and Hyypia's distribution last season and it was not just a coincidence that it coincided with Alonso's bright form. We've only played a few competetive games without him and imo, we'll get better the moment we begin to hold on to the ball with ease. It seemed like Carra was hoofing the ball time and time again because we werent able to hold on to possession even when we had the ball. Our first touch passing game in midfield seemed painstaking to watch. When in flow, the opposite team cant even get close to us.

[Kite]

  Benzo-13 said:

Punting the ball anywhere and giving the opposition back possession regularly has gotta stop.

Agreed. But that is as much about team organisation as anything else

[Benzo-13]

  carrafan said:

Lucas and Mascherano werent really crying out to recieve the ball and even when we did somehow had the ball in midfield we usually lost it within seconds, trying to bring Torres into the game.

 

There seemed to be an improvement in Carra and Hyypia's distribution last season and it was not just a coincidence that it coincided with Alonso's bright form. We've only played a few competetive games without him and imo, we'll get better the moment we begin to hold on to the ball with ease. It seemed like Carra was hoofing the ball time and time again because we werent able to hold on to possession even when we had the ball. Our first touch passing game in midfield seemed painstaking to watch. When in flow, the opposite team cant even get close to us.

Sami has always been the better passer and far more aerial dominant.

When Lucas & Masch played last year, he instigated our play.

 

We have to look at it without Alonso now.

So for me its Agger (when fit)+1.

[FC Showster]

Anyone else think we got away with one when he pushed Crouch as he went for a header (just before the Voronin pen claim - well Vornonin blatent pen)? Had my head in my hands waiting for Dowd to point to the spot but thankfully it never came

[MFletcher]

Carra's a top class defender, but there are various times when the situation calls for a pass across the back four or into midfield to keep the play moving and he seems to be completely incapable of doing it. The number of times he hoofed the ball today was extermely worrying. Their second goal stemmed from an unnecessary hoof.

 

It has to stop, because gifting possession to the opposition on such a continuous basis is asking for trouble. We were punished for it today, and will be punished for it again in the future. Top class defender or not, we need the centre backs to be comfortable on the ball and if Carra can't do that then he'll have to make way for Skrtel and Agger as the first choice defensive partnership.

[Bootle Buck]

Carra resorted to hopeful balls launched up in the air all day. He seems to panic when under pressure. Even the collision with Skrtel was unnecessary. He throws his body around and makes some great blaocks but to be honest compared to other top class defenders he is very limited. I think the fact that he is a scouser has guaranteed him being first choice rather than his ability of late.

[Zoob]

  Bootle Buck said:

Carra resorted to hopeful balls launched up in the air all day. He seems to panic when under pressure. Even the collision with Skrtel was unnecessary. He throws his body around and makes some great blaocks but to be honest compared to other top class defenders he is very limited. I think the fact that he is a scouser has guaranteed him being first choice rather than his ability of late.

 

Pretty much agree with that. He made 1 good block from a Defoe shot, but he really looked nervous - almost to the point of looking something of a liability. In terms of keeping possession, he absolutely was a liability. The clash with Skrtel was so completely his fault - he could see Skrtel coming onto the ball, and he was backpeddling. I guess one of them should have called, but it was very poor play.

 

In his defence, he's probably not trained much since going off injured against Athletico, but still worrying stuff...

[Stevie H]

he has kittens when alonso isn't there and starts making bad decisions. he needs to get over it fast.

[CaptainXabi]

  Stevie H said:

he has kittens when alonso isn't there and starts making bad decisions. he needs to get over it fast.

I agree entirely.

 

The other thing is that he has to trust his teammates to do their jobs - namely Lucas. That to me is the bigger issue than the performance (everyone is entitled a bad game and we all know he'll improve), and it's something that has happened more than once. Whatever he thinks of Lucas, that is the central midfielder Rafa has chosen and continues to choose. It's his job to manage possession - give him the ball. It's a lot better than doing the hop, skip, and hoof 20 times per match.

[fred]

  CaptainXabi said:

I agree entirely.

 

The other thing is that he has to trust his teammates to do their jobs - namely Lucas. That to me is the bigger issue than the performance (everyone is entitled a bad game and we all know he'll improve), and it's something that has happened more than once. Whatever he thinks of Lucas, that is the central midfielder Rafa has chosen and continues to choose. It's his job to manage possession - give him the ball. It's a lot better than doing the hop, skip, and hoof 20 times per match.

 

Good point about Lucas - agree entirely. It's also where the "what do you expect, it's Carra" argument falls short, we know he has his strong points and his weak points, he should know them too and play accordingly.

[Gilps]

  John said:

It's also clear that we need another option there. Not slagging off Ayala here, but some of us spent all summer saying we needed a 4th centre-half, while others were saying "we have 3 - two can play, and one can sit on the bench". Well, first match of the season we have to bring Ayala on. Not that that's why we were so poor today though.

 

In contrast Man U were without Ferdinand and Vidic but could still field Evans and O'Shea aa the centre halves and have Brown on the bench. We desperately need at least one other body in at the back.

[McBain]

Punting it forward blindly is something he's always done therefore it cant be something Rafa minds or wants to change

[Hassony]

  Gilps said:

In contrast Man U were without Ferdinand and Vidic but could still field Evans and O'Shea aa the centre halves and have Brown on the bench. We desperately need at least one other body in at the back.

Spurs would have probably beat them if they were playing that defence against them