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Whatever you think about Rafa at the moment, the guy has balls!

alias75

By alias75
in Liverpool FC

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alias75

alias75

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It would be the easiest thing in the world for him to not substitute Torres and Gerrard but you have to admire the mans single mindedness.

 

Whether you agree with his decisions or not (and personally i don't see the logic in taking off your best 2 players however tired they may be) you have to respect somebody that makes tough unpopular decisions even at a time when it would be so easy to take the easy way out and bow to pressure from the fans or the media.

 

I guess it boils down to do you want a manager that knows what they're trying to achieve and has total confidence in those methods or somebody like Harry Redknapp that doesn't put a player on cos the crowd tells him not to. I know which i prefer.

Farmer's Tan

Farmer's Tan

Posted
Posted
It would be the easiest thing in the world for him to not substitute Torres and Gerrard but you have to admire the mans single mindedness.

 

Whether you agree with his decisions or not (and personally i don't see the logic in taking off your best 2 players however tired they may be) you have to respect somebody that makes tough unpopular decisions even at a time when it would be so easy to take the easy way out and bow to pressure from the fans or the media.

 

I guess it boils down to do you want a manager that knows what they're trying to achieve and has total confidence in those methods or somebody like Harry Redknapp that doesn't put a player on cos the crowd tells him not to. I know which i prefer.

 

hmm,when u put it like that then there is no choice really is there,for me i would also prefer someone who believes in himself enough to make the tough decisions but i would prefer it even more if no matter what decision he chooses he makes the right one.being single minded and being wrong isn't a great combo is it?

alias75

alias75

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hmm,when u put it like that then there is no choice really is there,for me i would also prefer someone who believes in himself enough to make the tough decisions but i would prefer it even more if no matter what decision he chooses he makes the right one.being single minded and being wrong isn't a great combo is it?

 

Your right and of course those are 2 extremes, hopefully you want somebody that has their own ideas but is prepared to evolve them if they're not working, maybe thats Rafa's main fault that hes too single minded and not open to changing things, but id take that fault over a manager that goes with the wind and doesn't really know what hes trying to do.

Kahnee

Kahnee

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i would prefer it even more if no matter what decision he chooses he makes the right one.

 

And if Keane had scored the winner last night, it would have been the right one...

johngibo YPC

johngibo YPC

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FWIW i agree with the Torres substitution. It looked like he had lead in his boots and it wasn't happening for him

The Gerrard one was a mistake though. He was having a bad game, and was getting kicked but he's always worth leaving one. Should have just dropped him back abit.

Was Xabi on the bench? game was crying out for him

alias75

alias75

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Rafa seems to be so scientific over the fitness of the players it was probably a case of us winning 1-0 and thinking he could afford to keep Alonso on the bench so he was completely rested before the next game.

 

I am a big supporter of Rafa but this is the one aspect of his management that frustrates me, his substitutions seem more about the conditioning of the players and the next game rather than trying to influence the game situation.

Swipe

Swipe

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in hind site maybe the best move would have been to sub Lucas and put on Xabi ... don't know why that wasn't thought of

 

Exactly. To hold on for a 1-0 against Wigan is s*** IMO, but if you're gonna do it then get on your quarterback for the last 20 mins to see it out.

 

Lots of things i love about Rafa, but to sub Gerrard instead of Lucas when we'd conceded was absolutely mental.

 

To suggest you'd done it as Gerrard was tired - with 5 mins to go - just adds to the farce.

Mad Scientist

Mad Scientist

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Exactly. To hold on for a 1-0 against Wigan is s*** IMO, but if you're gonna do it then get on your quarterback for the last 20 mins to see it out.

The Mancs have won 7 games 1:0 in the league this season, we've won 2 by that score. They have the knack of nicking a goal when it's 0:0 late on and they have the knack of holding on to their 1:0 leads if they get a goal early. We (on the other hand) have drawn a bunch of games 0:0 and have let a couple of 1:0 leads slip.

 

We need to master the art of winning 1:0.

Malcolm X

Malcolm X

Posted
Posted
Rafa seems to be so scientific over the fitness of the players it was probably a case of us winning 1-0 and thinking he could afford to keep Alonso on the bench so he was completely rested before the next game.

 

I am a big supporter of Rafa but this is the one aspect of his management that frustrates me, his substitutions seem more about the conditioning of the players and the next game rather than trying to influence the game situation.

 

Not sure I agree with you totally. There have been numerous occassions where he has made a change which has had a positive effect on the game. Agreed that he makes mistakes but every manager does.

 

I doubt Rafa just looks at the fitness of the player, he also looks at the impact of the player and how they fit in to the system. Yesterday both Stevie and Torres never really got going. With Chelsea up next Rafa had to make a decision. In the end I think he made the right one.

 

I expected us to be challenging for the league and we are. Yesterdays performance was definitely an improvement over previous performances. Sundays will be even better.

 

Bring it on.

Swipe

Swipe

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The Mancs have won 7 games 1:0 in the league this season, we've won 2 by that score. They have the knack of nicking a goal when it's 0:0 late on and they have the knack of holding on to their 1:0 leads if they get a goal early. We (on the other hand) have drawn a bunch of games 0:0 and have let a couple of 1:0 leads slip.

 

We need to master the art of winning 1:0.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'll take a league title if it's one by 1-0 wins every week.

 

But the Mancs never looks as perilous as we do at 1-0. They don't self-destruct like we do.

 

They have a much better approach to winning a game than we do.

 

And for team to sit on a 1-0 (you'd have to think at Rafa's instructions) when we're plainly not good enough at the moment to see it out) is beyond frustrating.

 

Yet again, last night was an occasion where we could have killed that game off. We conceded late, but the entire second half was a shambles.

Bigal

Bigal

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FWIW i agree with the Torres substitution. It looked like he had lead in his boots and it wasn't happening for him

 

I also agreed with it. He just wasnt moving

Bigal

Bigal

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Me and you know the score lad

 

I did question at one point whether I would have given the team more movement than Torres.

 

There was one point when Yossi had the ball, ran towards the area, looking at torres to make the run, and he was stood there.

Bigal

Bigal

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He seemed reluctant, almost annoyed, to chase after balls last night

Should have put Ngoals on

 

Yeah I thought that

 

I love the name Ngoals

muleskinner

muleskinner

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On the radio commentary Gary Speed reckoned Torres had been b******ed about something. He stopped mentioning it as he reckoned he had gone on about it too much until Darren Fletcher took over and kept asking him what he thought about his body language. He did looked hacked off on the jerky stream I was watching.

Swipe

Swipe

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Being scientific about player fitness levels is one thing, but taking Gerrard of with only 7 minutes to go because he "was tired" just doesn't wash.

 

Complete nonsense.

 

He can't actually think he needs to keep two holding midfielders on and take our best player off when we should be chasing a winner with only a few minutes to go.

 

maybe it's just stubbornness as so many have questioned his insistence on two holding CM's.

Swipe

Swipe

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Posted
On the radio commentary Gary Speed reckoned Torres had been b******ed about something. He stopped mentioning it as he reckoned he had gone on about it too much until Darren Fletcher took over and kept asking him what he thought about his body language. He did looked hacked off on the jerky stream I was watching.

 

Service he has had has been s**** since he came back.

 

Could be he's simply pissed off at that.

JRC

JRC

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Posted

I'd already said to my mate that we should take Torres off, so I can't complain about that. It wasn't happening for him, and we retained an attacking line-up. Gotta love the Collymre (and call-in fans) logic - "why not give Keane a chance to build his confidence...instead he moves Babel there, who hasn't been playing well recently..." Unlike Robbie, presumably.

 

In other circumstances, I wouldn't have complained about Gerrard being subbed - he was not effective and getting kicked - but I'd always want him there for those last few minutes when you need a goal.

 

What I don't get in all the criticism is the argument that it's all about us being negative, sitting back on a lead or defending deep. We played poorly, that's true, and too many players didn't show up - but an attacking four of Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun and Babel isn't negative (even if it's not, on this occasion, effective); and we certainly didn't defend deep and invite them onto us at any time - the second half was 'crazy' because it was so open at times, very un-Benitez-like, and their goal came because we lost possession from a throw-in by their corner flag in the 83rd minute, when both our Full-backs were pushed right up in attack, allowing them to counter-attack. I'd rather we had sat back and held out by that stage.

 

BTW - one player that did show up was Lucas. He was one of our better players on the night, turned a shift in midfield. And at least he was back covering as he needed to for the pen. He'd be getting a lot less stick if he was 10 yards behind the play catching up. Yes it was soft, but not stupid or reckless - Koumas was in a dangerous position and just did him for a bit of skill. I've seen better defenders give away worse penalties.

JRC

JRC

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Doesn't matter if Rafa has balls, the team doesn't. The only way we'll win is by scoring a late goal. Not scoring first and defending.

Surely the problem in the last 2 league games was scoring first then NOT defending

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