Ok this deserves a thread of its own

[Toni]

I posted these posts in other threads but feel that this whole anti-keane bashing needs a thread of its own.

 

My argument is this. maure scrape and win games simply cos going forward they have plenty more options and threat. our central midfield and even the defence is second to none. manure by offering more threat with their attacks during a match relievs some pressure off their defence. This results in them playing with more confidence whilst usurping the confidence of the opposing team.

 

Our biggest defeciencies are creativity in the final third and more pace especially down the right. Who are the best candidates in our team to address these defecienes? Clearly KEANE and BABEL.

 

still think that torres/keane partnership has not as yet been given enough number of minutes on the pitch to deliver a good/bad judgement. ditto to the babel on the right possibility.

 

Keane and Babel MUST come good for the second part of the season if we want to win the title. if they come good we will win the premiership. if not there s a big defeciency in the team and our chances tp win the premiership plummet remarkably.

 

the team clearly needs more creativity in the final third and pace down the right flank. KEANE = CREATIVITY (in the final third, like he did numerous times for spurs) and BABEL = PACE (and more opportunities for the forwards from the right)

 

after all this is the reason why we have these palyers in the squad and why we spent so much money on them

 

i hope rafa gives this wild card a real proper chance and then come May...

 

 

 

Keane at Spurs is a million miles better than kuyt at Liverpool.

 

Keane at Spurs couldnt just vanish into thin air in a few months.

 

Keane at Liverpool needs some confidence back to equal keane at spurs.

 

so between keane at liverpool and kuyt at liverpool i would still choose keane at liverpool mainly cos one has the potential to come good, the other dare i say playing beyond his expectations which still is not nearly good enough.

 

same goes for babel. babel has the potential. kuyt doesnt it. guve them a both a proper run in. kuyt on the right and winning the title is never gonna happen. more 0-0 draws will continue to flow.

[sean]

Heavens above, it really doesn't need a new thread.

[Swipe]

Heavens above, it really doesn't need a new thread.

 

Not in the slightest.

[Toni]

why not? many of you want to stick with kuyt on the right, play masch and gerrard and torres up front. i am arguing the exact opposite.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

We have 4 potential match winners in the squad.

 

2 turn up in Gerrard and Torres

 

2 have been woeful in Keane and Babel

[surf]

why not? many of you want to stick with kuyt on the right, play masch and gerrard and torres up front. i am arguing the exact opposite.

 

kuyt up front and masch, gerrard&torres on the right?

 

i do agree that we rely too much on torres & gerrard. i can't see us winning the title with just those two playing well, keane & babel have to start chipping in with the performances they're capable of. i think that means both have to play more

[Toni]

We have 4 potential match winners in the squad.

 

2 turn up in Gerrard and Torres

 

2 have been woeful in Keane and Babel

 

Exactly. we have 4 potential winners. they have the potential. they are terribly lacking ib confidence. with reference to babel inmho he has surely not been given enough minutes on the pitch. and keane has arrived at a new club and clearly started on the wrong foot. so what should we do? clearly not bench them and play any other player who we all know do not have the potential to be that match winner.

[Chili Palmer]

so what should we do? clearly not bench them and play any other player who we all know do not have the potential to be that match winner.

 

so we play them no matter how many f*** ups?

[Toni]

so we play them no matter how many f*** ups?

 

 

cetrainly starting with both of them them esp. in home games, in an attempt and hoping to ressurect their confidence.

[Chili Palmer]

cetrainly starting with both of them them esp. in home games, in an attempt and hoping to ressurect their confidence.

 

 

no chance. potential is fine up to a point, we need them to perform now. let them get their confidence back in the reserves or on the training pitch, we have 16 cup finals now.

[Toni]

no chance. potential is fine up to a point, we need them to perform now. let them get their confidence back in the reserves or on the training pitch, we have 16 cup finals now.

 

 

ok we need them to perform now. if we have players who will perform 'much' or provide a much better threat than babel or keane i may have agreed with you, but to play other players who will fail to provide a much better attacking threat will just result in more draws and frustration to score goals, whilst destroying more the confidence of two player who on form can resolve many of our teams defecciencies. 2 players we spent considerable amounts of money on. 2 players who we know can perform much better as they constantly do for their national sides.

 

we have 16 cup finals, yet you choose to leave two of your potential match - winners consequently on the bench

[Gerrardrules]

Gerrard can feed Torres with exceptional passes which have to be absolute perfect and they are most of the time. Gerrard connects with Torres. Gerrard scores sublime goals on his own. Gerrard is so above the rest he is 2 steps ahead of the rest, bar Torres and Alonso.

 

Unfortunately all Keane does at the moment, is looking very lost. I havent seen a single combination between Torres and Keane last night. Sometimes a duo will work and sometimes they can't play with each other at all no matter how good they personally are. I'm afraid this is clearly the case with Keane and Torres. On paper it looked great, but on the pitch it just doesn't.

If we want win something this year, a duo of Gerrard and Torres is absolutely a must.

[allawee]

I subscribe to the same opinion that playing Keane on the right and Babel on the left, drop Kuyt and Reira for few games where both have been ineffective and hit an miss for about 2 months at least.

 

For me the next game we should start as:

 

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

Masch Alonso

Gerrad

Keane Torres Babel

[Andy @ Allerton]

Robbie Keane should be Left Back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the changing room.

[richwilks]

Babel is bordering on the ridiculous this season. Performances have been woeful and I'd much rather El Zhar coming off the bench than Babel, at least El Zhar has a surer touch and a bit of skill, Babel is all about knocking it and chasing it and he isn't getting the space to do that.

 

The main problem I have with Keane is his attitude. He seemed desperate to come here and perhaps he has been treated unfairly at times, being left out when he's scored etc but that should make him come back harder and more determined. Instead he just seems to have this look of having the whole world against him.

[Flasher]

I think El Zhar should be given more opportunities. I've always been impressed when he's come on. Based on this season's performances, he deserves more time than either Babel or Keane.

 

When Kuyt's having a bad day, I’d try El Zhar.

 

Admittedly i have no idea if he's injured or no.

[Magic8Ball]

Gerrard can feed Torres with exceptional passes which have to be absolute perfect and they are most of the time. Gerrard connects with Torres. Gerrard scores sublime goals on his own. Gerrard is so above the rest he is 2 steps ahead of the rest, bar Torres and Alonso.

 

Unfortunately all Keane does at the moment, is looking very lost. I havent seen a single combination between Torres and Keane last night. Sometimes a duo will work and sometimes they can't play with each other at all no matter how good they personally are. I'm afraid this is clearly the case with Keane and Torres. On paper it looked great, but on the pitch it just doesn't.

If we want win something this year, a duo of Gerrard and Torres is absolutely a must.

absolutely - for me the unsolved problem is Babel, he needs to accept that his role here is as an attacker not a striker and look to make Kuyts position his own, then we'll be set

[Hassony]

Admittedly i have no idea if he's injured or no.

 

he played for the reserves last night

[Flasher]

he played for the reserves last night

 

 

Feel sorry for the lad to be honest. If he can't get a game or sub appearance now, when can he?

 

Kuyt wide right of a 4-2-3-1 = fine

Kuyt wide right of 4-4-2 = not fine

 

By all means start with Kuyt in both systems, as he's earnt the right, but please change it when he's having a bad day to someone who can play there.

 

Babel should be tries there too, even if only as a sub.

[Hassony]

Feel sorry for the lad to be honest. If he can't get a game or sub appearance now, when can he?

 

I agree, at least have him on the bench, he has done more this season coming from the bench than either Benayoun or Babel

 

I don't understand what is he gaining from playing in the reserves, its not like he is 18

[richwilks]

I agree, at least have him on the bench, he has done more this season coming from the bench than either Benayoun or Babel

 

I don't understand what is he gaining from playing in the reserves, its not like he is 18

 

It's a joke that he's not involved when fit. He's not perfect but he's done a lot coming on in games. He's quick and skilful and offers something different to Riera & Kuyt on the wings in that he can beat a player and is quick.

 

It's not like he's let himself down when he's had chances either.

[Toni]

For those advocating to play el zhar before babel, they seem to have very short memories. Babel scored 10 goals for us last season two of which vs chelsea and arsenal. this season he scored the winner vs manure. he is an international established player. no one in our side has his pace, strength. he also has a blistering shot. his potential is there for all to see. el zhar simply does not have his potential. babel needs to learn, how he must his attributes positevely for the teama and that will come with gamers. he offers a huge attacking threat. this season he had never the opportunity to be match fit. he was mainly involved in 10 mins cameos from which i believe albeit never being on his form managed to score 2 goals.

 

Keane considered a legend at spurs, also came here as a 20mill player signing and hasnt happened for him for a number of different reasons which i am in no mood to try to analyze. all i know that for the last couple of years he ha sproved to be a terrific player and a player simply does not turn s*** overnight.

 

They both have the quality and certainly are the two players who if on top form make our team more complete. if they have the natural ability and not playing well they must have another type of problem which basically is lack of confidence.

 

inmho the title hinges on rafa s ability to somehow resurrect these players confidence back. then we will be able to offer a more attacking threat when need arises.

 

At least a certain ian rush agrees with me:

 

And the former Welsh international feels that the only way Keane will begin to settle in properly is when Benitez gives him a run in the side and makes him feel wanted and comfortable.

 

Rush adds: "If he is going to get back to the level we all know he can reach then Rafa Benitez is going to have to take Keane to one side and tell him he will be in his starting line up for the next four or five games."link

[Flasher]

For those advocating to play el zhar before babel, they seem to have very short memories. Babel scored 10 goals for us last season two of which vs chelsea and arsenal. this season he scored the winner vs manure. he is an international established player. no one in our side has his pace, strength. he also has a blistering shot. his potential is there for all to see.

 

 

No, we haven't forgotten, but this season he has been s***. El Zhar has been better.

[Toni]

No, we haven't forgotten, but this season he has been s***. El Zhar has been better.

 

Both players on top form who would you prefer in your starting line-up?

 

Who carries the most raw talent?

 

Who is the most experienced?

 

Has Babel ever been match fit this season?

 

Hasnt he mainly featured in 10 mins cameos and scoring 2 goals in the premiership?

 

dont you think he s a wild card a frustrated ballon, most probably waiting to burst in our favour?

 

wont you be pleased if rafa tries to increase his confidence?

 

dont you agree that he s the only player who atm can seriously improve our right wing and would be in favour of rafa playing this wild card bursting ballon from the start at least at anfield?

Edited January 21, 2009 by Toni

[Molby]

For those advocating to play el zhar before babel, they seem to have very short memories. Babel scored 10 goals for us last season two of which vs chelsea and arsenal. this season he scored the winner vs manure. he is an international established player. no one in our side has his pace, strength. he also has a blistering shot. his potential is there for all to see. el zhar simply does not have his potential. babel needs to learn, how he must his attributes positevely for the teama and that will come with gamers. he offers a huge attacking threat. this season he had never the opportunity to be match fit. he was mainly involved in 10 mins cameos from which i believe albeit never being on his form managed to score 2 goals.

 

Keane considered a legend at spurs, also came here as a 20mill player signing and hasnt happened for him for a number of different reasons which i am in no mood to try to analyze. all i know that for the last couple of years he ha sproved to be a terrific player and a player simply does not turn s*** overnight.

 

They both have the quality and certainly are the two players who if on top form make our team more complete. if they have the natural ability and not playing well they must have another type of problem which basically is lack of confidence.

 

inmho the title hinges on rafa s ability to somehow resurrect these players confidence back. then we will be able to offer a more attacking threat when need arises.

 

At least a certain ian rush agrees with me:

 

And the former Welsh international feels that the only way Keane will begin to settle in properly is when Benitez gives him a run in the side and makes him feel wanted and comfortable.

 

Rush adds: "If he is going to get back to the level we all know he can reach then Rafa Benitez is going to have to take Keane to one side and tell him he will be in his starting line up for the next four or five games."link

 

 

that implies an arm around the shoulder job, which isn't what Rafa does

 

I think Rafa should now consider doing two or three things that he doesn't normally do - it's for the best