Will we, as fans, ever be happy

[Andy @ Allerton]

It's an interesting thing supporting a football team nowdays.

 

I'm a big, fat cheat - I am lucky enough to have a season ticket and go to all the home games (And when, unlike now when I'm not on the bones of my a***) and quite a few aways (Usually).

 

I'm not exactly sure what perspective this brings - or how to describe it - but I know there are many, many people on here that go regularly home and away and love it.

 

I think the main thing with going (And none of this is any slight on those unfortunate enough not to be able to go every week due to geography, money, family, work and whatever) is that you realise what it is to support the team.

 

I'm also not going to go off on a 'superfan' - "I'm better than you cos.." nonsense.

 

We all support the team in our own individual way. We all know stuff and we all debate it (Endlessely) - due to the cavalier way I support the team, it takes quite a lot of effort to recall specific instances (Though some do obviously stand out) - for me it's the "There and Now" rather than the stats, and the buildup and the razz-a-ma-tazz that seems to encompass the game nowdays.

 

When you go to certain grounds you see Cheerleaders, fireworks, songs played when a goal is scored by the home side and more - and it's pretty amusing (But to others I'm sure they like it)

 

But the point of this rambling thread is twofold;

 

Firstly when you go (a lot) you realise that football isn't about glamour or flashing lights or stats or buildup or educated discussion.

 

It's having a few pints with your mates, talking s**** half the time, stating your opinon and then watching 22 lads belt a piece of plastic around on a pitch.

 

I'm not quite sure the point I'm trying to make here - but it's a fundamental one - It's a simple game that can be watched and enjoyed simply. I think the point might be that the stat attacks, the tactics debates and the attempts at insight into basically normal blokes like managers kind of misses the point of the whole thing. I wish I could explain it a bit better than that - but it's not hard. Like the game of footy. I mean, bloody hell most of us have played it for years as kids and adults.. And yet when it's the 'Top Flight' then our own experience and simple knowledge and attendance at the match or seeing it on telly all goes right out of the window because 'someone who knows better than us' tells us we're idiots and actually this is what is real...

 

And that brings me to the second and main point which is linked to the first..

 

Hopes and dreams are one thing. Expectations are quite another. With the media frenzy whipped up about anything and everything and anyone and everyone every single week - week in week out - league or no league - what are our expectations? Things have actually gone very well honours wise in the last 20 years or so - (GASP!) - no. I'm not joking. They really have. For many other clubs our 'stash' in that time is pretty impressive.

 

And before people say "Hang on.. we're not 'many other clubs'.." - I know. I am well aware of this fact..

 

But this is where happyness begins to creep..

 

Under Dalglish and before - winning the league was our happy time. Everything else was the trimmings - but that was the bread and butter.

 

Sounness, Evans, Evans and Houllier and now Benitez all popped up and tried to do their stuff and our 'happy time' wavered and at times wandered away like a lonely sparrow..

 

But then come our little lies..

 

"I'd be happy if we just.."

"If only we could"

"If we had this fella"

"If we didn't concede"

 

And 1,000,001 other 'happy times' were stated..

 

Rafa has done brilliantly. I know there are some on here that (Amazingly in my view!) think he's "not really done that well".. But (No offense to them) I think that is an unbelievable crock of s****..

 

When he first came in we all wanted something - and if you look at what we initially wanted and then what we actually got - and are getting and even the most miserable surely can see improvement all over the place - then "If only.." across the board from that first season he had in charge to the present day surely must start to have been met.

 

Given the 'downness' and near suicidal-ness of some on here you'd think we're about to get relegated to the conference - or that we're midtable or this or that or the other.

 

But. Be honest. Look at what YOU asked for when Rafa first stepped in. And BE HONEST. Personally he exceeded every wish I had for the club. I saw us on a downward spiral (Although spirited efforts from Evans and Houllier really did seem like it was short-term) but then we seem to be on the up. We're big in Europe again. We're improving year on year in the league. We've got a few 'world class' players with others seemingly keen to think about signing. We've got a magnificant squad. A great manager. A brilliant second in command. A fantastic ground and brilliant fans.

 

Well.

 

I'm happy.

 

[New York Red]

And here is the synopsis:

 

Andy is sh*tfaced.

Andy loves Liverpool.

Andy is a Luddite.

Andy is happy.

 

Andy's allright.

[Andy @ Allerton]

And here is the synopsis:

 

Andy is sh*tfaced.

Andy loves Liverpool.

Andy is a Luddite.

Andy is happy.

 

Andy's allright.

 

 

Hurrah! When you over for ale and curry and footy mate?

[New York Red]

I'm hping for April pal. Champions League game.

[Red]

It sounds like you're talking about the difference between being "passionate", or being "obsessive", with regard to the club and/or football in general?

 

Unfortunately, (due to being a member of the "geographically challenged" chapter of Liverpool supporters), I'm unable to support the club to the level Andy and the other regular match-going forumites do, but I think it's been a wonderful roller-coaster ride of a season and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Red

[Duncan Disorderly]

I think Red's correct in that it's passion vs obsession.

 

Although loving every minute and moments of desperation of this season, I'm still not going to say owt about the possible outcome of this season until about April at least, just in case I put the massive mockers on things.

[Jacks Jackie Jackson]

I'll tell you when I was happy. I'll tell you when I was utterly, utterly content. In that mini-bus driving away from the Attaturk stadium in Istanbul with my football-mad son by my side, a load of good mates and a few beers inside me. Those memories will be what sustains me in the difficult times.

[Duncan Disorderly]

I'll tell you when I was happy. I'll tell you when I was utterly, utterly content. In that mini-bus driving away from the Attaturk stadium in Istanbul with my football-mad son by my side, a load of good mates and a few beers inside me. Those memories will be what sustains me in the difficult times.

Yer a lucky, lucky man!

[gns]

Football for me is about winning, if we win I'm happy.

 

I dont buy into all this "lets be happy we're alive" crock. We want to win the league this season, and if we drop points to the likes of Stoke then I reserve my right to be pissed off about it.

[smicer07]

So basically you're a glory hunter then?

[Lou]

I was going to say I'm less happy watching Liverpool than I used to be but it's more accurate to say I'm less relaxed and therefore it's less enjoyable. Some of it is down to the fact that in the past we had so many good times and you could pretty much bank on the team getting maximum points at home. But it's also due to the impact that money has on the game these days. I remember coming away from Anfield after Forest had knocked us out of the European Cup. I was disappointed but at no time did I think it would ruin our season. Had we lost to Liege, then I think it would not only have affected the rest of this season but probably the next (due to the loss in income). The potential impact was at the back of my mind during the whole of the Liege qualifier and I simply couldn't enjoy the game.

Fast forward to tomorrow...well derby games have always been tense and never been quite the friendly affair they've always been portrayed. But these days they are truly nasty and for that reason I won't enjoy the game (albeit nothing will keep me away!)

[gns]

So basically you're a glory hunter then?

 

Yes

 

I want to win every game we play, when we dont I get annoyed/pissed off/disappointed , depending on the circumstance - if that makes me a "glory hunter" then so be it.

[David Hodgson]

Football for me is about winning, if we win I'm happy.

 

I dont buy into all this "lets be happy we're alive" crock. We want to win the league this season, and if we drop points to the likes of Stoke then I reserve my right to be pissed off about it.

 

100% right. It's a sport, a competitive event. If winning isn't the be all and end all then what's the point ? The smell of the pies and the bovril ? The flaking paint in the main stand corridors ; jackets & jumpers for goalposts ..........my ar&se.

[David Hodgson]

Yes

 

I want to win every game we play, when we dont I get annoyed/pissed off/disappointed , depending on the circumstance - if that makes me a "glory hunter" then so be it.

 

Absolutely. What's a f*cking 'glory hunter' anyway ? I'm a Liverpool supporter and I live for the glory that we eternally pray will come our way.

[David Hodgson]

I was going to say I'm less happy watching Liverpool than I used to be but it's more accurate to say I'm less relaxed and therefore it's less enjoyable. Some of it is down to the fact that in the past we had so many good times and you could pretty much bank on the team getting maximum points at home. But it's also due to the impact that money has on the game these days. I remember coming away from Anfield after Forest had knocked us out of the European Cup. I was disappointed but at no time did I think it would ruin our season. Had we lost to Liege, then I think it would not only have affected the rest of this season but probably the next (due to the loss in income). The potential impact was at the back of my mind during the whole of the Liege qualifier and I simply couldn't enjoy the game.

Fast forward to tomorrow...well derby games have always been tense and never been quite the friendly affair they've always been portrayed. But these days they are truly nasty and for that reason I won't enjoy the game (albeit nothing will keep me away!)

 

That's simply because we are nowhere near as good as we were then. That team was to be trusted. It could lose 3 on the bounce and you'd know that the big revival was just around the corner. Since the glory days we've always lived on a precipice, and we always will because of the expectations we rightly have.

[Andy @ Allerton]

100% right. It's a sport, a competitive event. If winning isn't the be all and end all then what's the point ? The smell of the pies and the bovril ? The flaking paint in the main stand corridors ; jackets & jumpers for goalposts ..........my ar&se.

 

 

Fair enough I can accept that.

 

You don't actually like football or going to the match - you just like being associated with something that's a success.

 

Takes all kinds I suppose.

 

Personally, I actually like football.

[carrafan]

Fantastic opening post there.

--------

 

 

 

It not the end of the world even if we dont win the league this season. We're well in race for it now, but two of the three teams challenging for the league isnt going to win it. We could be one of those teams, or maybe we wont and win the thing. But that shouldnt stop us from enjoying most moments of the season till the last kick of the ball.

 

For me, football is escapism from the normal grind of the week. Hence, i prefer to look at mainly the positive aspects of the day over the negative ones. A bad performance frustrates me as much as it does the one next to me, but once one stops analysing every game with respect to the league title, imo it becomes a lot easier to enjoy a game. Maybe that is one of the reasons why we perform better in Europe than the league. Even an average performance in the previous game or in the one going on doesnt get the supporters irked and anxious which in turn doesnt spill over to the players. In the league, everyone seems to be uncomfortable even after 10 minutes into a 0-0 game 10 games into the season.

 

At the end of the day though, there is no right or wrong. If you like to get all worked up about it, its your call and your way to watch a game. If you dont like to, its still your style.

Edited January 18, 2009 by carrafan

[David Hodgson]

Fair enough I can accept that.

 

You don't actually like football or going to the match - you just like being associated with something that's a success.

 

Takes all kinds I suppose.

 

Personally, I actually like football.

 

Of course I like going the match ya bell. I love everything about it, but the game itself is everything, and always will be. It's not a f*cking a day out, it's about setting off, kidding yourself that your part of an army going to war, and wanting to come home victorious. I can have a lovely pre-match laff with my mates, the pints can taste sweet, and scran do the job, but if we get beat, I don't go home with a spring in my step because I've had 'a nice time after all'. i go home sick and frustrated. I like football, but I love LFC, and I was brought up to believe that LFC exists to win trophies. Nothing else matters. That quest.

 

But, heck, maybe your not one of those kinds of fans Andy.

[David Hodgson]

It's an interesting thing supporting a football team nowdays.

 

I'm a big, fat cheat - I am lucky enough to have a season ticket and go to all the home games (And when, unlike now when I'm not on the bones of my a***) and quite a few aways (Usually).

 

I'm not exactly sure what perspective this brings - or how to describe it - but I know there are many, many people on here that go regularly home and away and love it.

 

I think the main thing with going (And none of this is any slight on those unfortunate enough not to be able to go every week due to geography, money, family, work and whatever) is that you realise what it is to support the team.

 

I'm also not going to go off on a 'superfan' - "I'm better than you cos.." nonsense.

 

We all support the team in our own individual way. We all know stuff and we all debate it (Endlessely) - due to the cavalier way I support the team, it takes quite a lot of effort to recall specific instances (Though some do obviously stand out) - for me it's the "There and Now" rather than the stats, and the buildup and the razz-a-ma-tazz that seems to encompass the game nowdays.

 

When you go to certain grounds you see Cheerleaders, fireworks, songs played when a goal is scored by the home side and more - and it's pretty amusing (But to others I'm sure they like it)

 

But the point of this rambling thread is twofold;

 

Firstly when you go (a lot) you realise that football isn't about glamour or flashing lights or stats or buildup or educated discussion.

 

It's having a few pints with your mates, talking s**** half the time, stating your opinon and then watching 22 lads belt a piece of plastic around on a pitch.

 

I'm not quite sure the point I'm trying to make here - but it's a fundamental one - It's a simple game that can be watched and enjoyed simply. I think the point might be that the stat attacks, the tactics debates and the attempts at insight into basically normal blokes like managers kind of misses the point of the whole thing. I wish I could explain it a bit better than that - but it's not hard. Like the game of footy. I mean, bloody hell most of us have played it for years as kids and adults.. And yet when it's the 'Top Flight' then our own experience and simple knowledge and attendance at the match or seeing it on telly all goes right out of the window because 'someone who knows better than us' tells us we're idiots and actually this is what is real...

 

And that brings me to the second and main point which is linked to the first..

 

Hopes and dreams are one thing. Expectations are quite another. With the media frenzy whipped up about anything and everything and anyone and everyone every single week - week in week out - league or no league - what are our expectations? Things have actually gone very well honours wise in the last 20 years or so - (GASP!) - no. I'm not joking. They really have. For many other clubs our 'stash' in that time is pretty impressive.

 

And before people say "Hang on.. we're not 'many other clubs'.." - I know. I am well aware of this fact..

 

But this is where happyness begins to creep..

 

Under Dalglish and before - winning the league was our happy time. Everything else was the trimmings - but that was the bread and butter.

 

Sounness, Evans, Evans and Houllier and now Benitez all popped up and tried to do their stuff and our 'happy time' wavered and at times wandered away like a lonely sparrow..

 

But then come our little lies..

 

"I'd be happy if we just.."

"If only we could"

"If we had this fella"

"If we didn't concede"

 

And 1,000,001 other 'happy times' were stated..

 

Rafa has done brilliantly. I know there are some on here that (Amazingly in my view!) think he's "not really done that well".. But (No offense to them) I think that is an unbelievable crock of s****..

 

When he first came in we all wanted something - and if you look at what we initially wanted and then what we actually got - and are getting and even the most miserable surely can see improvement all over the place - then "If only.." across the board from that first season he had in charge to the present day surely must start to have been met.

 

Given the 'downness' and near suicidal-ness of some on here you'd think we're about to get relegated to the conference - or that we're midtable or this or that or the other.

 

But. Be honest. Look at what YOU asked for when Rafa first stepped in. And BE HONEST. Personally he exceeded every wish I had for the club. I saw us on a downward spiral (Although spirited efforts from Evans and Houllier really did seem like it was short-term) but then we seem to be on the up. We're big in Europe again. We're improving year on year in the league. We've got a few 'world class' players with others seemingly keen to think about signing. We've got a magnificant squad. A great manager. A brilliant second in command. A fantastic ground and brilliant fans.

 

Well.

 

I'm happy.

 

 

There are bits there I fully get where you're coming from. I go to all the home games, and most of the aways, and it's a different world, and a different kind of supporting to that which you experience here.

 

However, I think you're implying that the match goers are more at ease with the club and its direction than the '606 brigade'/You're on Sky Sports/Internet forum people ? That certainly isn't the case. Match goers are, if anything, far more critical than people are on a forum like this. I'm not talking about the boo-ers, just normal everyday going match folk. Walk out of Anfield after a home draw, and all you'll hear is '..well that was sh*t wasn't it ....what was he playing at with that team...we'll never win anything playing like that..etc'. Just the normal expelling of frustrations.

 

By contrast, somewhere like this forum, seems to be approached by people as if there is a strict code to adhere to. God forbid anyone expresses a passionate post match view and they're jumped on as 'knee jerkers' or 'drama queens'. If I've come back from a game and sung me heart out for the team, and they've still had a stinker, like last week at Stoke, then if I want to whinge about all and sundry, surely there's no finer venue for it than amongst 'friends' on an LFC message board ?

 

I think you're confusing people being critical with not enjoying their football, with people not having perspective. I think we've been well done to since 2001 in particular. I think I enjoyed the 2001 treble far more than I did the 1984 one. No previous European Cup triumph compares with 2005. Doesn't mean I think that Houllier should still be in charge, or that Rafa is the second coming. I'm enjoying this season, but there's a long way to go. It could yet prove a stinker. I've got a lot of faith in Rafa, but don't think he's over achieved, and do think he needs to bring home more silver before we can start talking of him in terms of our truly legendary managers.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Of course I like going the match ya bell. I love everything about it, but the game itself is everything, and always will be. It's not a f*cking a day out, it's about setting off, kidding yourself that your part of an army going to war, and wanting to come home victorious. I can have a lovely pre-match laff with my mates, the pints can taste sweet, and scran do the job, but if we get beat, I don't go home with a spring in my step because I've had 'a nice time after all'. i go home sick and frustrated. I like football, but I love LFC, and I was brought up to believe that LFC exists to win trophies. Nothing else matters. That quest.

 

But, heck, maybe your not one of those kinds of fans Andy.

 

I'm not having a go at you - but if you only enjoy watching football or going to the match when we win - then it really doesn't sound to me like you actually enjoy football at all really.

 

For example - if you saw us play and we were magnificant from start to finish and the opposition were equally fantastic, yet we lost 3-0 due to very bad luck - then you wouldn't enjoy it at all. And yet we were fantastic that day and you saw a great game of football.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Andy @ Allerton

[David Hodgson]

I'm not having a go at you - but if you only enjoy watching football or going to the match when we win - then it really doesn't sound to me like you actually enjoy football at all really.

 

For example - if you saw us play and we were magnificant from start to finish and the opposition were equally fantastic, yet we lost 3-0 due to very bad luck - then you wouldn't enjoy it at all. And yet we were fantastic that day and you saw a great game of football.

 

I'll let you know when I have that experience.

 

Of course there are degrees of disappointment. I love seeing us play well, and looking like a great side. If we don't get a result, playing very well can be a consolation. Equally, a 1-0 win can be tinged with disappointment if you haven't played well or deserved it.

 

Ultimately though, I'd always rather be winning. By a mile. I thought everyone thought that way. Maybe it's just me.

[Mike]

Fair enough I can accept that.

 

You don't actually like football or going to the match - you just like being associated with something that's a success.

 

Takes all kinds I suppose.

 

Personally, I actually like football.

in that case you don't need a team.

[Andy @ Allerton]

I'll let you know when I have that experience.

 

Of course there are degrees of disappointment. I love seeing us play well, and looking like a great side. If we don't get a result, playing very well can be a consolation. Equally, a 1-0 win can be tinged with disappointment if you haven't played well or deserved it.

 

Ultimately though, I'd always rather be winning. By a mile. I thought everyone thought that way. Maybe it's just me.

 

Winning is great! You can't deny that - but losing or drawing isn't the end of the world.

 

And sometimes it takes the bad times on the pitch to appreciate the good times.

[Andy @ Allerton]

in that case you don't need a team.

 

I like Liverpool - but I do also from time to time skulk off and watch other local sides.

 

As I said - I enjoy watching footy.

[gns]

I'm not having a go at you - but if you only enjoy watching football or going to the match when we win - then it really doesn't sound to me like you actually enjoy football at all really.

 

For example - if you saw us play and we were magnificant from start to finish and the opposition were equally fantastic, yet we lost 3-0 due to very bad luck - then you wouldn't enjoy it at all. And yet we were fantastic that day and you saw a great game of football.

 

 

We all enjoy football, I watch all different kinds of leagues and standards of the game and enjoy it.

 

When it comes to Liverpool the main issue is winning. If we win and play well, brilliant, if we win playing s****, great, if we lose then all the bovril and pies in the world isnt going to give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Ill be pissed off because it MATTERS.

 

If I want a day out Ill go to the zoo, I go to Anfield for the winning feeling.