no game plan for the loss of Alonso

[Molby]

Alonso is irreplaceable

 

without him the ball doesn't ping around and teams like Stoke find it much easier to defend against us

 

so...instead of trying to replace him, the thing to do is to compensate, i.e. play people with pace, and strength that can cope with a more direct style in his absence

 

we didn't do it and this is why I was alarmed at the team sheet, Worse, when it clearly wasn't working, rafa dallied for far too long before bringing on Torres and Babel

 

the correct team for yesterday would have included both Torres and Babel - we simply had no other options given the loss of Xabi..it was a no brainer

 

yet we fielded a team that had the best player taken out of CM, his best position, no pace and no ability to hold up the ball and wait for the cavalry to arrive - which it didn't, especially as our best joiner of the play (cavalry) Gerrard, was very often the furthest player forward

 

yesterday rafa blunted our attack and midfield in one fell swoop

 

he basically has about two weeks to learn his lesson once and for all - if he does, we can beat Chelsea, draw with Man utd and beat everyone else and still win the league

otherwise...

 

 

ps I still love you rafa

[Earl Hafler]

Alonso is irreplaceable

 

without him the ball doesn't ping around and teams like Stoke find it much easier to defend against us

 

so...instead of trying to replace him, the thing to do is to compensate, i.e. play people with pace, and strength that can cope with a more direct style in his absence

 

we didn't do it and this is why I was alarmed at the team sheet, Worse, when it clearly wasn't working, rafa dallied for far too long before bringing on Torres and Babel

 

the correct team for yesterday would have included both Torres and Babel - we simply had no other options given the loss of Xabi..it was a no brainer

 

yet we fielded a team that had the best player taken out of CM, his best position, no pace and no ability to hold up the ball and wait for the cavalry to arrive - which it didn't, especially as our best joiner of the play (cavalry) Gerrard, was very often the furthest player forward

 

yesterday rafa blunted our attack and midfield in one fell swoop

 

he basically has about two weeks to learn his lesson once and for all - if he does, we can beat Chelsea, draw with Man utd and beat everyone else and still win the league

otherwise...

ps I still love you rafa

 

Especially with Gerrard being in a position so high up. Lucas and Masch are not creators. That's why i have Xabi as being a bigger influence this season.

 

Very slow, negative subs.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Earl Hafler

[Molby]

I was gutted yesterday

 

good spec but that's about it

freezing, and s***, s*** performance...really worrying too

[aka Dus]

Well, at least it makes a change from the summer's multi threads where Xabi had it all to prove and we were better off shipping him out and getting in Barry.

[Gunga Din]

we set up yesterday like we would set up away at Barca or Madrid. we set up primarily not to lose. the problem though, is that Stoke would have broke your arm for a point before the game. we set up to try and nick a goal, but Stoke were happy to sit 9 behind the ball. it made it a nothing game, it was too compact, and we couldnt stretch the play, the easiest way to do that is getting the midfield to run beyond the forwards, but we hadnt the midfielders to do that yesterday, and we had our two best strikers sat in the hut. and with Kuyt up on his own, we did the opposite, i.e he dropped back to midfield or went wide right, further compacting the team and not giving us an outlet when we had the ball. yesterday, tactically, seemed inept, and i cant understand the thinking behind it

[Molby]

Well, at least it makes a change from the summer's multi threads where Xabi had it all to prove and we were better off shipping him out and getting in Barry.

 

 

the problem there is that although I agree, Rafa didn't

 

heard different things from different sources about what all that was about but nothing stacks up

 

eg, was speaking to the very plausible (in person) ballague a few months ago and his theory made sense - then I realised that Ballague is a bulls***ter that likes to wind everyone up - although he's a really, really nice guy that wishes us well, just like he appears on TV

 

so.......

[Gunga Din]

Well, at least it makes a change from the summer's multi threads where Xabi had it all to prove and we were better off shipping him out and getting in Barry.

 

the last 2 seasons Xabi was poor.he has stepped up this season and proven himself. i dont think its a coincidence that his playing well has happened as we have gone top of the league.

[surf]

yesterday's game wasn't about missing an individual player. the eleven on the pitch were good enough to win the game, but they didnt look like they wanted it enough. we lacked grit and determination and that cost us the game

[aka Dus]

the problem there is that although I agree, Rafa didn't

 

heard different things from different sources about what all that was about but nothing stacks up

 

eg, was speaking to the very plausible (in person) ballague a few months ago and his theory made sense - then I realised that Ballague is a bulls***ter that likes to wind everyone up - although he's a really, really nice guy that wishes us well, just like he appears on TV

 

so.......

 

We need our best XI every game now, injury notwithstanding. If he puts out Xabi, Masch, Gerrard, Torres every time and sticks with his favourite perm from Babel, Keane, Benayoun, Dirk, then maybe the players can effectively pick the side for him by putting in the standard of performance required. You'd hope be hoping for a eureka moment alright in terms of the stongest XI (or at least the strongest front 6).

[aka Dus]

the last 2 seasons Xabi was poor.he has stepped up this season and proven himself. i dont think its a coincidence that his playing well has happened as we have gone top of the league.

 

I'm not being wise after the event but I never doubted Xabi would return to his already established and proven high level of performance.

[aka Dus]

We need our best XI every game now, injury notwithstanding. If he puts out Xabi, Masch, Gerrard, Torres every time and sticks with his favourite perm from Babel, Keane, Benayoun, Dirk, then maybe the players can effectively pick the side for him by putting in the standard of performance required. You'd hope be hoping for a eureka moment alright in terms of the stongest XI (or at least the strongest front 6).

 

I should have had Riera in there as a must pick too, in fairness.

[Smigger]

the last 2 seasons Xabi was poor.he has stepped up this season and proven himself. i dont think its a coincidence that his playing well has happened as we have gone top of the league.

 

 

Xabi broke his foot twice last season so I assume that might have been 1 reason for his "Poor" from?

[Gunga Din]

Xabi broke his foot twice last season so I assume that might have been 1 reason for his "Poor" from?

 

 

well, without wanting to turn this thread into a xabi thread, for the two years previous to this season, he did very little to suggest he should be a first choice player. he was off his game. this season he has been one of our better players and has got back to his form he showed when he first arrived, and has been one of our key players this season.

[Tommok]

I'm not being wise after the event but I never doubted Xabi would return to his already established and proven high level of performance.

 

Well done.

[abc]

To me, the problems are:

 

- Lack of movement off the ball.

- Players spread across the pitch too far from each other.

- Lack of midfield runners ahead of the ball.

- Carragher at right back absolutely blunts our attacks down that wing.

- Kuyt is not a lone striker. Spearhead of a two-man strike force maybe, but not with Gerrard right behind him.

- Playing the ball into good wide crossing positions but having two men in the box most times.

 

Same old sh*t really. With or without Alonso, the same issues are still there. Xabi's ability to pick out an incisive pass quickly and accurately compensates for that. And on some days, the movement is slightly better, players seem to be more confident with making more attacking runs.

 

Stoke saw how Newcastle got ripped to shreds, and were hardly going to allow Gerrard the kind of time and space he got. Spreading the field of play is an excellent idea when playing against teams who defend well if:

- Wide man has pace and/or good skill on the ball to beat their man

- Wide man can deliver an excellent cross, but this is dependent on a crucial element;

- Enough players (usually at least 3) actually make runs into the box

 

Yesterday in the first half, Riera was able to put in good crosses (I remember him beating his man once at least). When he did put a good ball in, how many players did we have in the box for him to aim at? The two I can remember are the Kuyt header and Benayoun trying to get to an excellent low cross. Both times I think they were the only players in the box.

 

With regards the Barry saga, I'd love to see Xabi and Barry in a midfield two, with Gerrard ahead of them. Both are excellent passers of the ball, with Barry adept at getting into the box to support the strikers. They can both defend well and put in a tackle where need be. Both can interchange their roles and pick their moments to get forward. That would make us a much better team on the ball, although for me Mascherano is still a should-have (as opposed to must-have) for away games.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Makes me laugh people moaning about Kuyt being on his own up front and 'not being able to score' when we put 5 past Newcastle.

 

Yes Alonso is clearly our best player (in regards to the team) - but that system also works.

 

A little bit of credit should be due to Stoke and their game plan - and we stiil nearly nicked it - they also beat Villa and Arsenal - and only lost to Manchester United due to the referee.

[Stevie H]

A little bit of credit should be due to Stoke and their game plan - and we stiil nearly nicked it - they also beat Villa and Arsenal - and only lost to Manchester United due to the referee.

fair comment that. it's frustrating yeah but there don't really seem like any gimme games this season. but to win the title a bunch of these draws need to become ground-out wins.

[Dule]

I think that we should of had Gerrard in the middle with Masch, Babbel up front with Torres, Kuyt on the right and Riera on the left. The pace of Babbel and Torres would of allowed us to play the counter attack far more effectively.

[fred milne]

the last 2 seasons Xabi was poor.

That's a little unfair.

 

He started and ended last season in good form. He had a very dodgy patch in the middle when he was struggling for fitness after breaking his foot twice. The season before he was steady but not at the top of his game.

[fred milne]

Mascherano is still a should-have (as opposed to must-have) for away games.

He's been pretty average all season to be honest. Only the Utd and Chelsea games stand-out for him.

[Chili Palmer]

He's been pretty average all season to be honest. Only the Utd and Chelsea games stand-out for him.

 

 

I'm still alot happier with him in the team for away games.

[fred milne]

Very slow, negative subs.

Its understandable that he went for a similar front six to the one that did so well at St James, although Babel started that game if memory serves.

 

However, as soon as it was clear that Stoke had learnt the lessons from that game, Rafa needed to act much quicker than he did.

 

That Rafa evidently sees Kuyt as an "untouchable" in the teamsheet a la Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres is starting to look like an achilles heel.

[Chili Palmer]

That Rafa evidently sees Kuyt as an "untouchable" in the teamsheet a la Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres is starting to look like an achilles heel.

 

 

I think he is close to being one of the 'untouchables' when playing on the right in a 4-2-3-1, as a lone striker? he should be one of the 'nevers'

[Mike]

Its understandable that he went for a similar front six to the one that did so well at St James, although Babel started that game if memory serves.

 

However, as soon as it was clear that Stoke had learnt the lessons from that game, Rafa needed to act much quicker than he did.

 

That Rafa evidently sees Kuyt as an "untouchable" in the teamsheet a la Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres is starting to look like an achilles heel.

 

spot on that. kuyt was bloody awful on saturday and there's no way he should have stayed on. as my mate said, he couldn't hold up a tuck shop.

[Hassony]

I think he is close to being one of the 'untouchables' when playing on the right in a 4-2-3-1, as a lone striker? he should be one of the 'nevers'

 

correct

 

Kuyt should play on the right instead of the awful Benayoun