lets have a sense of perspective here....

[floyd the barber]

4 points clear........mancs have games in hand yes, but its better to have the points on the board.

 

We ARE challenging for the title, this is what we wanted..a serious challenge and i think we have that.

 

Stoke was never going to be easy, especially in freezing conditions...this is the kind of game we would have lost last season, we went there....did ok to stem the tide first half and were much better 2nd..with a bit of luck gerrards 2 efforts would have gone in..instead of hitting the bar and post.

 

Of course it vwasnt our best performance, we went out there to do a job...and did one half well..

 

We are in contention...this is what we wanted, lets not get angry for us drawing at stoke, lets celebrate how much we have improved and that after years of being also-rans..we are now seriously challenging for the title....c`mon..we are dissapointed, YET are 4 points CLEAR!

 

So many positives , lets not focus on the negatives..

 

Torres is back..and will surely be starting in the coming games..

A relatively fit squad

Challenging in the champs league, premiership(and if you needed reminding..are still top) and Fa cup....

 

Lets get a grip and look to our success and possible huge success to come.....

Edited January 11, 2009 by Lets get Masched

[quibs]

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

on the other hand, we played a team who started the day 3rd from bottom, who have 0 points against Chelsea and the mancs - one or both of whom have to drop points tomorrow and we came off second best. We didn't force a save of note from their keeper and put up a shambles of a performance.

 

We've played some s*** this season, but that was a real contender. I couldn't be more pissed off if we'd lost

[kop205]

on the other hand, we played a team who started the day 3rd from bottom, who have 0 points against Chelsea and the mancs - one or both of whom have to drop points tomorrow and we came off second best. We didn't force a save of note from their keeper and put up a shambles of a performance.

 

We've played some s*** this season, but that was a real contender. I couldn't be more pissed off if we'd lost

 

Aren't there enough other threads open for people to vent their anger?

 

I agree with the original post. There were some - not many, but some - positives to take and we move on.

[D.Boon]

on the other hand, we played a team who started the day 3rd from bottom, who have 0 points against Chelsea and the mancs - one or both of whom have to drop points tomorrow and we came off second best. We didn't force a save of note from their keeper and put up a shambles of a performance.

 

We've played some s*** this season, but that was a real contender. I couldn't be more pissed off if we'd lost

 

Completely agree

 

There were some - not many, but some - positives to take and we move on.

 

The only positive was Torres not twanging his hammy

[carrafan]

4 points clear........mancs have games in hand yes, but its better to have the points on the board.

......................................

 

I agree with you on the positives. We definitely are in the mix to the title and have done fantastically well till now to reach where we have. Torres is back, Arbeloa should be back for the FA Cup tie against Everton, at worst and we're on our way.

 

But it shouldnt be discounted that we put in a hopeless performance against Stoke yesterday. Rafa has sometimes had problems against teams who set up to defend, have a physical presence and are solid at the back. We used to struggle against Bolton, Brum against Bruce often managed to frustrate us and now Stoke have taken up the mantle. We need to find out a way to beat such teams regularly. Also, our bench strength was shown yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano could get a grip on midfield and didnt win enough 2nd balls when Hyypia/Skrtel won the ball in the air. We missed Alonso's smartness on the ball and needed someone to keep the midfield ticking. Need to sort this out asap or we'll drop more points in the season.

 

I'm quite sure Everton will look to frustrate us next week and look to play off set pieces and long ball just as they did earlier in the season. Up to us to take advantage. Forget about United/Chelsea and look to win our games...if we manage to somehow beat United at Old Trafford we'd get a massive impetus to win the league.

[Barnesy_10]

on the other hand, we played a team who started the day 3rd from bottom, who have 0 points against Chelsea and the mancs - one or both of whom have to drop points tomorrow and we came off second best. We didn't force a save of note from their keeper and put up a shambles of a performance.

 

We've played some s*** this season, but that was a real contender. I couldn't be more pissed off if we'd lost

[smicer07]

Good opening post, some of the replies are pathetic.

[sned]

Good opening post, some of the replies are pathetic.

It is a good opening post, but also a bit defeatest. It comes across as "well it's ok to f*** up against Stoke, because we're doing better than last year" and I think that approach is wrong. Yes we're still top of the league, and we'll still be there at the end of the day regardless, but Stoke was a decent opportunity to pull clear & build up a bit of a points buffer, and yet again we didn't take it.

 

Exactly the same things happened against Hull, Fulham, West Ham - all games we should have done better in if we have any grand ideas about still being top at the end of the season.

 

Not just with yesterday, but we should have pulled clear of the rest by now, but we haven't. As Carrafan says we have a problem against teams who sit deep, and yesterday yet again Rafa showed he can't deal with that problem.

[alias75]

Im hoping after the next few games Rafa settles on a team because theres no doubt when we play at our best we're among the best in this league and we have nobody to fear.

 

We're in the position we want to be at this time of the season and while it could have been even better we are where we are.

 

There really isn't a lot wrong with the team except not taking the chances we're creating and theres every hope a fully fit and in form Torres will change that. Thats one plus we have over Man Utd, they haven't played well most of the season but they've had all their attacking players fit for most of the season, we've struggled somewhat to score goals and take our chances but we have been missing our best attacking player and another in Keane thats taken time to settle.

 

All the pundits are expecting Man Utd and Chelsea to kick on, but they seem to ignore the fact that we also have huge room for improvement and we have the excuse of being without one of the best strikers in Europe for the vast majority of the season.

 

Its frustrating when you drop points against teams you shouldn't but this is the best position we've been in, in the league for a long time.

[MFletcher]

What was wrong with the team yesterday?

 

It was the same formation as the last two games. It was the same front six as in our last league game against Newcastle - the only replacement being Riera for the ineffective and somewhat brainless Babel.

 

Wise after the event.

[psl]

Wise after the event.

 

That's hardly fair though. Several people said they had serious worries about the team when it was released.

[Ste M]

The difference between our performance yesterday and the Mancs there the other week was a man being sent off and Stoke not being able to hold out. And we still should have won it at the end.

[Chili Palmer]

That's hardly fair though. Several people said they had serious worries about the team when it was released.

 

 

they do that every game tho, going to get it right sometimes.

[sned]

What was wrong with the team yesterday?

 

It was the same formation as the last two games. It was the same front six as in our last league game against Newcastle - the only replacement being Riera for the ineffective and somewhat brainless Babel.

 

Wise after the event.

 

Newcastle tried to play football, they left space for us to work in which we exploited. Stoke didn't.

 

We needed something different yesterday - that spark to break down a packed & well organised defence.

 

Kuyt up front on his own will never be able to provide that. Torres could - Keane could.

[psl]

they do that every game tho, going to get it right sometimes.

 

They were fairly reasoned concerns. Kuyt up front on his own has never worked!

[psl]

Newcastle tried to play football, they left space for us to work in which we exploited. Stoke didn't.

 

We needed something different yesterday - that spark to break down a packed & well organised defence.

 

Kuyt up front on his own will never be able to provide that. Torres could - Keane could.

 

Newcastle just couldn't defend corners.

[MFletcher]

That's hardly fair though. Several people said they had serious worries about the team when it was released.

 

People are always unhappy with the team.

 

I was perfectly content with it on account of it being the same front six as against Newcastle. The only change from that, with Riera replacing Babel, seemed sensible given the latter's relative ineffectiveness from open play. Aurelio coming in at left back could harldy be helped, and the aerial presence of Skrtel over Agger seemed the obvious choice.

 

People are always wise after the event of a performance like this. I recall reading from someone on here last night that Benayoun was not good enough for a title winning side. He certainly looked good enough when he was putting in two excellent performances in a row against Bolton and Newcastle. But on account of one performance he's suddenly back to being the scapegoat.

 

It irritates me.

[alias75]

What was wrong with the team yesterday?

 

It was the same formation as the last two games. It was the same front six as in our last league game against Newcastle - the only replacement being Riera for the ineffective and somewhat brainless Babel.

 

Wise after the event.

 

I didn't have much of a problem with the team that started to be honest although maybe Keane for Kuyt. Both Lucas and Benayoun had done enough in previous games to deserve a start. But as the game progressed and the longer we went without scoring i certainly think we didn't make the right changes.

 

I can understand the theory about keeping width and stretching the play rather than clog the middle of the pitch up but whats the point of doing that if the wingers are crossing it to 1 player being marked by 4 or 5?

 

As the game progressed we needed another forward on there if that meant sacraficing Lucas or Mascherano and putting Stevie into midfield so be it, you could have also took Aurellio off played Carragher as a CB and gone 3-5-2.

 

Ok he put Torres on, but we still lacked bodies getting forward to support the forwards, it doesn't always have to be a personnel change but there wasn't much urgency or players looking to get forward towards the end of the game.

[MFletcher]

Newcastle just couldn't defend corners.

 

You make it sound as though we didn't have a number of chances from open play. We could have scored six from open play alone.

[psl]

People are always unhappy with the team.

 

I was perfectly content with it on account of it being the same front six as against Newcastle. The only change from that, with Riera replacing Babel, seemed sensible given the latter's relative ineffectiveness from open play. Aurelio coming in at left back could harldy be helped, and the aerial presence of Skrtel over Agger seemed the obvious choice.

 

People are always wise after the event of a performance like this. I recall reading from someone on here last night that Benayoun was not good enough for a title winning side. He certainly looked good enough when he was putting in two excellent performances in a row against Bolton and Newcastle. But on account of one performance he's suddenly back to being the scapegoat.

 

It irritates me.

I understand that. Its particularly unfair on Yossi.

 

I think that we've all seen enough games end 0-0 with Kuyt alone up top to know that it isn't a coincidence though. I think Rafa made a mistake and I think its unfair to say that people are wise after the event when their exact concerns, based on experience, were once again realised.

 

Still, the Gerrard/Torres combination nearly opened Stoke up a couple of times in the last 30 minutes and I can't wait to see those two combining again from the start.

 

Wasn't it around this time last year we lost to West Ham and dropped to 7th? We're now 4 points clear at the top of the league, so its not all bad news. Its just so frustrating seeing such a good opportunity wasted. We'll just have to beat the Mancs and Chelsea again though won't we?

Edited January 11, 2009 by psl

[sned]

Its just so frustrating seeing such a good opportunity wasted. We'll just have to beat the Mancs and Chelsea again though won't we?

 

That's the exact issue for me as well.

 

We should be in a position where we could afford to not beat the Mancs & Chelsea and still have enough points in hand to still be clear.

Edited January 11, 2009 by sned

[Hieronymus Bosch]

People are always wise after the event of a performance like this.

Rubbish. That we failed to break down a team as negative as Stoke (a team far less ambitious than Newcastle) with a pair of defensive, uncreative midfielders and Kuyt up top on his own was hardly a surprise.

[MFletcher]

Because 4-2-3-1 as a formation hasn't worked in the past?

[psl]

Because 4-2-3-1 as a formation hasn't worked in the past?

 

You know that's not what he said.

 

Its our best formation but not with Kuyt in the striker role.