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The need for patience - we're on the brink of something incredible

royhendo

By royhendo
in Liverpool FC

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royhendo

royhendo

Posted
Posted

Having just read "Teambuilding - the Road to Success" by Rinus Michels (Amazon link) it really struck a chord with me after seeing the recent interviews with Eduardo Macia and Piet Hamberg. The deeper I looked into it, the more parallels I found between what's happening at LFC and the blueprint for excellence set out in Michels' book.

 

I firmly believe we're on the brink of something awesome at this club right now, and people like Lawro are putting it at risk - if we don't clean up this year, people are going to be calling for Rafa's head, and it's right at the time when we need him to finish what he's started. I honestly feel we're a couple of seasons away from something legendary.

 

I posted this on RAWK yesterday under the title 'Rinus Michel, his teambuilding process, and the final jump to Level 3 football and hopefully it's OK to post it here too cos I'd really like people's feedback on it.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=225239.0

 

Cheers guys. I'd post the whole thing here but it's a very long post, and it's got too many quotes in it to get through.

Guest spk

Guest spk

Posted
Posted

reading through it atm - its an sbsolutely brilliant piece. thanks ever so much for putting so much time and effort into. i will have some thoughts a little later after ive had time to digest this along with your previous piece on man management as well as the other articles you referenced that i havent taken in before.

 

:applause:

Guest spk

Guest spk

Posted
Posted (edited)

ok ive read that from start to end and its an absolutely brilliant post and frankly theres little i can find anny fault with. i agree with you that we are on the cusp of level 3 football. there were times last season were we played some briilliant circulation football, counter attacking football but as you say we're simply not consistant enough at this stage. i think at times as well we sometimes struggle to transition from one style of play to the next. thats not to say that we dont try but as you state it is senstive to quality though i feel that there is an argument that last year this could be down to our reliancee on those new to the team and therefore new to rafas systems, or second choice players in the team through due to injuries.

 

its the points you raise comparing alonso and barry. i tend to agree with the point you make regarding alonsos development. there is certainly no doubting his quality and game intelligence but his development does seem to have plateued somewhat since the spell he had out. i also agree that he is guilty of losing the ball in the build up play which must be frustrating to those around him who then need to track back, especially when a simpler move could have kept the momentum.

 

alas at this stage it would appear that barry is likely to stay with villa however the silverware alonso picked up over the summer might be what he needed to get him motivated again - especially if he wants to be in the spanish squad when the world cup comes around! personally i think with lucas going into his second season at liverpool alonso is going to have to really pull his finger out if he wants to consistantly get in the side when the lads return from the olympics. he has an excellent opportunity at the start of the season so lets hope he takes full advantage of it.

lastly i thought the earlier discussion around the training philopshy was particularly interesting ...

I liken it to building a house with all my coaches and all my assistants and all the people who are working here at the Academy. In the house we start with the management on the ground floor which is like the foundation. We will then set our goals and our philosophy. The second part of the house is the first floor which about having the right mentality. Part three is the technical part, part four is the tactical part and the fifth part is the physical part.

i would say that thats spot on and sums up what rafa appears to look for perfectly - mentality, technical skills and lastly physicallity. perhaps the way in which he places the need for physical development so far down is why he is able to find players that suit the premiership in such a wide number of countries were other managers have failed - ie: because he can see the technical skill and mentality in them to work with his team to find ways of exploiting talents that already exist while developing greater physical assets. likewise its more important that the players mentaility is strong so that when they are repeatedly kick to s*** by the likes of terry, run into the grown in training, recieve specialist training on areas of their game which are considered weak (not something people like to fess up too) or as with lucas post they have the strength of mind to try something and if it doesnt work not to dwell on it or scream at your team mates but to get back and regain possession.

 

anyway many thanks again for taking the time to write up such a fascinating and insightful post :applause:

Edited by spk
shabirmia

shabirmia

Posted
Posted

Thanks very much Royhendo. You did all LFC fans a favor by researching and distilling this topic into a post that was not that long to read if you are a student of the game (something that we LFC fans always profess that we are!). It really makes me want to read the book. It also gives me way more insight into what Rafa is trying to achieve by going all over the world trawling for youngsters with the right "mentality" (we have heard this word ad infinitum from the gaffer).

 

It doesn't bother me too much if we don't win the league in the next 2 or 3 seasons. What I will be watching for is some progression in the team's maturity of play, and with Royhendo's excellent article, I will be more adequately equipped to assess this aspect.

 

Thanks a lot mate.

cymrococh

cymrococh

Posted
Posted

Good, well-researched post.

 

Interesting points based around Lucas. I've got a sneaky feeling we'll be seeing a fair bit of him this season, especially if Barry doesn't come.

fyds

fyds

Posted
Posted

Excellent post and an excellent book - Michels was a true football genius - like PC, I too find the Lucas overview very intriguing.

difs.oner

difs.oner

Posted
Posted

A piece all Liverpool fans and pundits should read before slating Rafa. You can see now why he left Valencia. In order do create something special.

royhendo

royhendo

Posted
  • Author
Posted

guys, cheers for the nice comments, I appreciate it.

 

what i'd like to do is keep 'gathering evidence' on this so to speak, so we can get a more detailed view of the coaching, analysis, and youth development model employed. i suppose they guard the information like the contents of fort knox, but...

 

other than finding it all fascinating, i think it'd also help us going forward, cos as fans we're more likely to demand long-term planning and continuity if we understand how it's done. the reason certain clubs win more consistently than others is that they've got good people in place, good long-term planning, high levels of investment, and above all, continuity. if real madrid could get this kind of continuity, for example, they'd wipe the floor with everyone else even more than they have to this stage...

 

anyway, cheers again. even last night again in rafa's post-match comments, they were peppered with comments that fit into the model - gonna be an interesting season, and i pray to god an interesting decade or two to follow with him at the helm.

Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

Posted
Posted
guys, cheers for the nice comments, I appreciate it.

 

what i'd like to do is keep 'gathering evidence' on this so to speak, so we can get a more detailed view of the coaching, analysis, and youth development model employed. i suppose they guard the information like the contents of fort knox, but...

 

other than finding it all fascinating, i think it'd also help us going forward, cos as fans we're more likely to demand long-term planning and continuity if we understand how it's done. the reason certain clubs win more consistently than others is that they've got good people in place, good long-term planning, high levels of investment, and above all, continuity. if real madrid could get this kind of continuity, for example, they'd wipe the floor with everyone else even more than they have to this stage...

 

anyway, cheers again. even last night again in rafa's post-match comments, they were peppered with comments that fit into the model - gonna be an interesting season, and i pray to god an interesting decade or two to follow with him at the helm.

 

fair play to you lad. it is very interesting.

Runehammer

Runehammer

Posted
Posted

I believe that Rafa is cut from the same cloth as Shanks and Paisley, although they are all completely different they share many common traits. He's certainly here to build a dynasty and I cannot think of any manager who would be as good, let alone better.

 

Good shout on timescale Royhendo, I'd say 7 years sounds about right and if we haven't won No 19 by then, then I will begin to wonder if we'll ever manage to win it again in my lifetime. It took Demento 7 years and (notwithstanding the different era) I see a lot of similarity between the respective positions of the cubs when they took over. Even Chelsea have not drastically reduced that timeframe (since Abramovich) and they had the luxury of getting shot of all their deadwood and bringing in quality in one fell swoop. Managing to maintain their position has also proven to be very difficult for them.

 

So whilst Rafa is doing a better (or at least as good as) job than anyone else around there is still no guarantee of success and that's the bitter pill that we all may have to swallow. If he gets it right tho' then we are likely to bring back the glory days for at least a decade.

 

Getting rid of him tho' is not likely to help on any level, tho' the demand for instant success being what it is these days makes me fearful.

Mad Scientist

Mad Scientist

Posted
Posted

Whatever happened to:

Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.

;)

 

I've got through about half of it so far. I didn't agree with this bit:

They won't be taking things in that they don't understand or expect. As such, we've seen certain players grow under Rafa's tenure, based on their mentality and their footballing intelligence. The ones who haven't learned have found themselves on the transfer list- it's my feeling that Alonso currently falls into that category, although there are clearly financial reasons behind it.

I don't think Alonso lacks mentality or footballing intelligence, exactly the opposite if anything. Stick Alonso's footballing brain into Essien's body and you'd have the perfect footballer. Alonso's problem is his physical limitiations, he's just not quite fast or athletic enough for the modern Premier League game in my view.

John am Rhein

John am Rhein

Posted
Posted
Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.

 

That's fine if you think it's more about how you play the game than whether you win or lose.

royhendo

royhendo

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Whatever happened to:

Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.

;)

 

:lol: it's alive and well... but don't kid yourself - shanks and paisley were tactically sophisticated and while they might have simplified the game for us, they knew the game in more depth than anybody. if they'd taken the time to write a book, they'd have outdone Michels, don't worry about that!!

 

I don't think Alonso lacks mentality or footballing intelligence, exactly the opposite if anything. Stick Alonso's footballing brain into Essien's body and you'd have the perfect footballer. Alonso's problem is his physical limitiations, he's just not quite fast or athletic enough for the modern Premier League game in my view.

 

I'd agree - sorry, I wasn't suggesting xabi lacks football intelligence - just that he wasn't performing the role he'd been asked to do (at least not consistently). I come back to it later but I honestly think he'll respond to the challenge and come back stronger for it - precisely because of his mentality.

 

You're bang on though, it possibly does come across that way. It's just my view on why we're so interested in Barry.

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