Rafa: the stick he takes.

[meredithmathieson]

From Villa and Spurs fans in relation to the respective Barry and Keane bids.

 

Yet there was Harry Redknapp on SSN yesterday talking about wanting Shaun Wright-Phillips, but they'd spent a lot on Crouch so they'd have to see about agreeing a fee etc. etc.

 

Don't see the difference, and it happens all the time - a variation on 'So and so is a good player, and we're always interested in good players', but they do seem to have it in for Rafa. Don't know whether or not this is just sour grapes with the Villa and Spurs fans as in both cases we are after highly popular,hugely influential players, or what.

 

Really, you have to suspect that by the time a club comes in with a bid, the groundwork as regards the player has already been done: e.g. I don't think anybody is expecting Keane to turn round and say he is quite happy with Spurs.

 

But Rafa does seem to have an innate ability to get under the skin of a lot of people. Which I kind of like.

 

ps as per the mantra on that Spurs site - anybody else surprised at us being referred to as a defensive team, or is it just me?

[Maldini]

Most fans of other teams, or at least most who post on forums seem to know very little about the game and just parrot Andy Gray and his cohorts, ergo Rafa is clueless and we're defensive.

[cymrococh]

Rafa is a favourite target of the know-nowt journos and columnists for some reason. Possibly because he wasn't afraid to tell Warnock and Allardyce - who are seen as good honest talented English managers despite winning sweet f*ck all and consistently failing at every club they go to - how it is.

 

Facts do not live in the same world as these people where Rafa rotates more than anyone else ever, zonal marking has failed miserably and Gerrard 'for me' has to play in the middle.

 

Unsurprisingly, fans of other clubs may not see us play very much so they base their judgements on what the experts tell them.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Paul Caruso

[Maldini]

Yeah, I think Rafa's philosohpy of "there's a right answer, a wrong answer and the answer you give to the press" has added to the animosity too. They've got copy to fill and he's not playing the game so they slate him when they get the chance.

 

I honestly think Rafa realised over the last 12 months with all the nonsense with the Americans that he needs the press on his side and that's why he's been throwing the press a few bones in recent press conferences. Whereas he would have straight-batted transfer questions in the past recently he's been throwing a few scraps to the "seagulls"

[John am Rhein]

anybody else surprised at us being referred to as a defensive team, or is it just me?

 

Not surprised at all. It's a compliment.

[Sol]

Most fans of other teams, or at least most who post on forums seem to know very little about the game and just parrot Andy Gray and his cohorts, ergo Rafa is clueless and we're defensive.

 

How does a defensive team in the Premier league scored the most goals in the Champions league last season would be my reply to them. They wouldn't know that because Andy Gray never mentioned it!

[Paddock170]

Also the "Rafa is lucky again" tag that Andy Gray has on him. Did he mention that the Mancs where lucky when they won that post-season friendly at Moscow. (Not sure as my telly couldn't get reception that night - strange)

[Rich Gobey]

Its a consequence of the lack of intelligent discussion about football in the media in this country. If they don't understand the concept, it's because the concept is stupid, not the other way round. Some of them (and a few posters on here, let it be said) are still banging on about 4-4-2 and wingers and playing players out of position.

[Gomez]

Rafa is a favourite target of the know-nowt journos and columnists for some reason. Possibly because he wasn't afraid to tell Warnock and Allardyce - who are seen as good honest talented English managers despite winning sweet f*ck all and consistently failing at every club they go to - how it is.

 

Facts do not live in the same world as these people where Rafa rotates more than anyone else ever, zonal marking has failed miserably and Gerrard 'for me' has to play in the middle.

 

Unsurprisingly, fans of other clubs may not see us play very much so they base their judgements on what the experts tell them.

[Gomez]

Its a consequence of the lack of intelligent discussion about football in the media in this country. If they don't understand the concept, it's because the concept is stupid, not the other way round. Some of them (and a few posters on here, let it be said) are still banging on about 4-4-2 and wingers and playing players out of position.

 

It's not just football

[matlfc]

The whole zonal marking thing really annoyed me. It seemed everytime another team had a half decent effort against us that was to blame. No mention of the other 9 times out of ten that we defended with ease. Lazy commentating.

[Gunga Din]

The whole zonal marking thing really annoyed me. It seemed everytime another team had a half decent effort against us that was to blame. No mention of the other 9 times out of ten that we defended with ease. Lazy commentating.

 

 

I think last year though something was amiss with our defending from set pieces. we conceded more from set pieces than any other team except spurs i think. we dont concede many from open play, but we do seem to concede a disproportionate amount of goals from set plays, we looked very suspect defending deep when free kicks are taken from out wide and something clearly isnt right.. Whether that was down to the system we were playing or just poor concentraion, i dont know, but hopefully the arrival of Pellegrino as defensive coach will sot the problems out.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Gunga Din

[johngibo YPC]

I think last year though something was amiss with our defending from set pieces. we conceded more from set pieces than any other team except spurs i think. we dont concede many from open play, but we do seem to concede a disproportionate amount of goals from set plays, we looked very suspect defending deep when free kicks are taken from out wide and something clearly isnt right.. Whether that was down to the system we were playing or just poor concentraion, i dont know, but hopefully the arrival of Pellegrino as defensive coach will sot the problems out.

 

I think its only in Rafa's 1st & 4th year that we have conceded too many goals from set plays. In fact i think we had the best record in the premiership in year 3. Last season was a funny one. We seemed to concede alot of 'phase two' goals from set pieces. The ball wasn't being cleared properly or we weren't alive enough to the second ball. It seemed to be a confidence or a determination problem, rather than a positional one.

Whatever the reason for it the point stands anyway. In that you can't blame every goal we concede from a set piece on zonal marking, if you are not going to blame every goal other teams concede on man to man marking

 

Its also worth noting that we are one of the only teams going zonal on corners but lots of teams go 'zonal' on defensive freekicks, which is where we seem to have a bigger problem

Edited July 18, 2008 by johngibo YPC

[Gunga Din]

I think its only in Rafa's 1st & 4th year that we have conceded too many goals from set plays. In fact i think we had the best record in the premiership in year 3. Last season was a funny one. We seemed to concede alot of 'phase two' goals from set pieces. The ball wasn't being cleared properly or we weren't alive enough to the second ball. It seemed to be a confidence or a determination problem, rather than a positional one.

Whatever the reason for it the point stands anyway. In that you can't blame every goal we concede from a set piece on zonal marking, if you are not going to blame every goal other teams concede on man to man marking

 

Its also worth noting that we are one of the only teams going zonal on corners but lots of teams go 'zonal' on defensive freekicks, which is where we seem to have a bigger problem

 

i agree on the second phase bit. it is really frustrating, but it also seems to me that teams twigged on how to play us with set pieces, wich aybe has a lot to do with bringing everyone back, leaving the opposition with easy access to the second ball, and we seem to get caught a lot pushing out as the second ball is played back in. As i said, with the arrival of a specialised defensive coach, hopefully those problems can be addressed, because we lost a lot of stupid points last year because we couldnt defend a dead ball.

[Woodsyla]

i agree on the second phase bit. it is really frustrating, but it also seems to me that teams twigged on how to play us with set pieces, wich aybe has a lot to do with bringing everyone back, leaving the opposition with easy access to the second ball, and we seem to get caught a lot pushing out as the second ball is played back in. As i said, with the arrival of a specialised defensive coach, hopefully those problems can be addressed, because we lost a lot of stupid points last year because we couldnt defend a dead ball.

 

There was far less of a back 4 last season as well. Lots of chopping and changing, new players in, old reliable players injured. With zonal marking that can have a extra impact.

[Gunga Din]

There was far less of a back 4 last season as well. Lots of chopping and changing, new players in, old reliable players injured. With zonal marking that can have a extra impact.

 

absoutely it can, i'm just putting across the theory that by taking everyone back for set pieces, we are more exposed when the second ball is put back in after the initial clearance, because we try and push out as a unit

[Mike]

rafa admitted that we had a problem with set pieces last year as i recall.

which was funny because there were plenty on here who said we didn't!

[Gomez]

rafa admitted that we had a problem with set pieces last year as i recall.

which was funny because there were plenty on here who said we didn't!

 

We did go nearly a year without conceding a goal from a set piece, so it is not surprising that some people didn't jump on the bandwagon after conceding one or two.

[Gunga Din]

We did go nearly a year without conceding a goal from a set piece, so it is not surprising that some people didn't jump on the bandwagon after conceding one or two.

 

 

last season it 14 i think. not one or two

[Rich Gobey]

last season it 14 i think. not one or two

 

Lets wait and see what it will be like next season before writing it off.

 

We didn't play with a settled back 4, Skrtel joined late and so obviously didn't have the time to be fully integrated with the system and other teams have had a chance over the last few years to work out a way to overcome our set piece plan. The small chinks in the armour were enough to let teams through. I expect it to be business as usual next season.

[Gunga Din]

Lets wait and see what it will be like next season before writing it off.

 

We didn't play with a settled back 4, Skrtel joined late and so obviously didn't have the time to be fully integrated with the system and other teams have had a chance over the last few years to work out a way to overcome our set piece plan. The small chinks in the armour were enough to let teams through. I expect it to be business as usual next season.

 

Who is writing anything of?? i was just saying that last year we had a problem defending set pieces. it was as plain as day to anyone watching the game we were uncomfortble defending setpieces, particularly on the second pase of play.

[Rich Gobey]

Who is writing anything of?? i was just saying that last year we had a problem defending set pieces. it was as plain as day to anyone watching the game we were uncomfortble defending setpieces, particularly on the second pase of play.

 

Alright, I'm not having a go!

 

We know it wasn't a vintage season for defending set plays, but there were mitigating circumstances. The system has proved successful before and I'm sure it will again.

 

I would like to see us push an extra man out to contest the 2nd phase though.

[Gunga Din]

Alright, I'm not having a go!

 

We know it wasn't a vintage season for defending set plays, but there were mitigating circumstances. The system has proved successful before and I'm sure it will again.

 

I would like to see us push an extra man out to contest the 2nd phase though.

 

 

as i said in a post earlier in this thread the appointent of a specialist defensive coach will hopefully solve a lot of the probems. i also like to see a couple stay up, Torres stood at the half way line and someone like Mascherano or Alonso about 25 yards from goal, it would stop the opposition overlaoding the box and exploiting space, and would IM reduce the threat from ist and 2nd balls ino the box, as by putting Torres and another player in attacking positions, that could ocupy at least 3 and possibly 4 of the attcking teams players.

[Gomez]

last season it 14 i think. not one or two

 

To concede 14 you first have to concede one or two.

[Gunga Din]

To concede 14 you first have to concede one or two.

 

 

thats very profound.