The Issue of "Slaves"

[Bromage]

Were it not for the use of a such a highly emotive and insulting term, which due probably more to another bout of verbal incontinence than any desire to insult, the issue of players as slaves argument doesn’t seem to had a fair hearing. But if the issue is to be debated fairly then in my opinion there are some genuine points to be aired.

 

Firstly starting with the Ronaldo issue, I've actually started to have some sympathy with him. I guess there’s a tinge of joy that he may not be around next season, which might have a detrimental effect on our near neighbours but actually more than that there’s the view that he has the right to achieve all the goals he set himself during his short career. It’s probably fair to say that he’s “repaid” his club’s investment in him and will net them a massive transfer fee. If his ambition has been to play for Real then surely he’s free to do this. Whatever the significance of the contract, which is designed in the interests of both parties and certainly enhances the fee for the club’s benefit, these days there is no real significance or commitment on either side to fulfil the terms. It’s significant that even the manager has kept quiet on the issue, despite all the press assertions of his “anger” but again, it’s only my opinion, the role of Ronaldo as a main striker last season was surely an accident and therefore the prospect of getting a substantial budget to invest in a proven front man must be very attractive.

 

Turning to Barry, the contrast between the behaviour of the two managers couldn’t be more pronounced and having met them both I can’t believe I’m saying this!! Villa have been fighting for at least 3 years to hang on to Barry, with promises of success and more money but this is someone who wants to test himself at a level where there is an opportunity to compete in the major competitions; it is surely likely that had he played for a higher profile team during this time his England appearances would undoubtedly have been more frequent. So finally he has decided to wait no longer and react positively to our club’s advances. He’s been prepared to listen to Villa for the last 3 years, of course with all the usual inducements but on the basis that despite the promises nothing has changed, he wants to move. So despite MON’s knowledge of the situation he has decided to make things as difficult as possible, which does him little credit and is a sure sign of “sour grapes”. The impression is that he is deliberately playing out this debacle in the press and therefore ensuring that there is a massive negative attitude towards him from Villa fans and others in general.

 

Lastly contrast this with the actions of our manager; Crouch was thanked for his time and contribution and based on Rafa’s appreciation of his wish to play more, he let him go with his blessing. Xabi has been given every opportunity to move given that he may play less frequently for the team.

 

I’m certainly not naive about this whole theatre and that at the root of it all is money but however much the wages are these days shouldn’t alter the fact that players should have the right to make a choice about where they work. But what does strike me is that on the basis that managers and players all have the same motives, some are good at bit and some are bloody useless and MON certainly falls into the latter category. Whatever the outcome of the Barry case, he will almost certainly be booed at most grounds with little justification. Where are the FA, PL and PFA in situations like these? Does it really have to come down to the ramblings of FIFA’s resident nutcase to highlight what’s actually going on here?

[Hassony]

Whatever the outcome of the Barry case, he will almost certainly be booed at most grounds with little justification.

 

Why would he be booed at most grounds? he will be booed at Villa but thats about it

[muleskinner]

If players want to leave they should put in a transfer request.

[Hassony]

If players want to leave they should put in a transfer request.

Simple isn't, but the players don't want to lose their loyalty bonus!

[muleskinner]

Simple isn't, but the players don't want to lose their loyalty bonus!

 

Despite the fact that they are going to receive a signing on bonus and get a hefty increase in salary. Barry's talk of being priced out of his dream move is galling, why doesn't he put in a transfer request and forego his loyalty bonus?

[Cobs]

Despite the fact that they are going to receive a signing on bonus and get a hefty increase in salary. Barry's talk of being priced out of his dream move is galling, why doesn't he put in a transfer request and forego his loyalty bonus?

 

Greed - of him & his agent

 

simple as

[Hassony]

Despite the fact that they are going to receive a signing on bonus and get a hefty increase in salary. Barry's talk of being priced out of his dream move is galling, why doesn't he put in a transfer request and forego his loyalty bonus?

 

 

[muleskinner]

Greed - of him & his agent

 

simple as

 

Its a short career.

Edited July 16, 2008 by muleskinner

[Woodsyla]

Greed - of him & his agent

 

simple as

I believe the latter is probably very very significant in these situations. No agent will advise a player to do something that will cost HIM money. Players, are on the whole, young kids and often quite dense. They are SO easy for an unscrupulous agent to manipulate.

[John am Rhein]

Greed - of him & his agent

 

simple as

 

Greed...but also rational economic behaviour.

[Cobs]

Greed...but also rational economic behaviour.

 

 

he's a footballer not chancellor of the exchequer

[Hassony]

Greed...but also rational economic behaviour.

 

He should make up his mind, either he wants a move, in which case he hands in his transfer request and forfits any loyalty bonus, or stick around until the end of his contract

 

he can't have it both ways

[muleskinner]

Greed...but also rational economic behaviour.

 

Won't be too rational if it prices him out of his dream move, Rafa moves onto other targets and he is stuck at Villa.

[whitewidow]

Would a transfer request equate to an equal drop in the transfer price requested - or do you think we are at a stage where Villa will dig in for £18m regardless...

[Herbie von Smalls]

thorny subject this. i can sympathise with the perspectives of both clubs and players. from an individual's point of view, why shouldn't a footballer be able to do what anyone in any other walk of life do and work where and when they want? at the same time, the investment clubs spend on recruiting 'employees' is unlike any other walk of life and player contracts appear not to be worth the paper they're written on, to some degree.

 

once a club sells at a top player at an inflated price, the normality is they'll then pay over the odds trying to replace him, as other clubs try to take advantage of the windfall.

 

morally, i think the balance of power has shifted too far in favour of the individual in the aftermath of bosman. while it was seen to be a corrective measure to combat the power of clubs initially, it has helped boost the power of agents in the game and - the coinciding explosion in tv revenues notwithstanding - fuelled obscene salaries even for people nowhere near the top of their profession. e.g. wayne bridge £80k a week reportedly, for a second choice left back?!?!

 

i'm not sure what we can read into barry's (seeming) unwillingness to put in a transfer request. assuming he hasn't done so, it could be for any number of reasons. perhaps his determination not to let his club f*** him over - on principle - for what he's entitled to is clouding the bigger picture.

[whitewidow]

Are there any arbitration units within football which get involved in situations the ilk of Barry and Ronaldo - please excuse my ignorance?

[Rich Gobey]

he's a footballer not chancellor of the exchequer

 

He's probably significantly richer than the current and previous chancellor already.

[Snoeker]

So how much is this loyalty bonus exactly?

[theredfella]

So how much is this loyalty bonus exactly?

 

It's the remainder of his contract.

[Gunga Din]

thorny subject this. i can sympathise with the perspectives of both clubs and players. from an individual's point of view, why shouldn't a footballer be able to do what anyone in any other walk of life do and work where and when they want?

 

 

this bit in particular i would agree with IF club could then sack a player for poor performances. players cant have it both ways. they sign a contract over a set period of time, they should honour it, or if they want to go, hand in a transfer request. people bang on about many things ruining the game. the players are probably as guilty as anyone for that.

[Skillz]

True. however it is rare for a player to submit a transfer request and Barry has spent 10 years there and cost them nothing. He probably feels he deserves it compared to alot of other players that collect it.

[Pam]

Were it not for the use of a such a highly emotive and insulting term, which due probably more to another bout of verbal incontinence than any desire to insult, the issue of players as slaves argument doesn’t seem to had a fair hearing. But if the issue is to be debated fairly then in my opinion there are some genuine points to be aired.

 

Firstly starting with the Ronaldo issue, I've actually started to have some sympathy with him. I guess there’s a tinge of joy that he may not be around next season, which might have a detrimental effect on our near neighbours but actually more than that there’s the view that he has the right to achieve all the goals he set himself during his short career. It’s probably fair to say that he’s “repaid” his club’s investment in him and will net them a massive transfer fee. If his ambition has been to play for Real then surely he’s free to do this. Whatever the significance of the contract, which is designed in the interests of both parties and certainly enhances the fee for the club’s benefit, these days there is no real significance or commitment on either side to fulfil the terms. It’s significant that even the manager has kept quiet on the issue, despite all the press assertions of his “anger” but again, it’s only my opinion, the role of Ronaldo as a main striker last season was surely an accident and therefore the prospect of getting a substantial budget to invest in a proven front man must be very attractive.

 

Turning to Barry, the contrast between the behaviour of the two managers couldn’t be more pronounced and having met them both I can’t believe I’m saying this!! Villa have been fighting for at least 3 years to hang on to Barry, with promises of success and more money but this is someone who wants to test himself at a level where there is an opportunity to compete in the major competitions; it is surely likely that had he played for a higher profile team during this time his England appearances would undoubtedly have been more frequent. So finally he has decided to wait no longer and react positively to our club’s advances. He’s been prepared to listen to Villa for the last 3 years, of course with all the usual inducements but on the basis that despite the promises nothing has changed, he wants to move. So despite MON’s knowledge of the situation he has decided to make things as difficult as possible, which does him little credit and is a sure sign of “sour grapes”. The impression is that he is deliberately playing out this debacle in the press and therefore ensuring that there is a massive negative attitude towards him from Villa fans and others in general.

 

Lastly contrast this with the actions of our manager; Crouch was thanked for his time and contribution and based on Rafa’s appreciation of his wish to play more, he let him go with his blessing. Xabi has been given every opportunity to move given that he may play less frequently for the team.

 

I’m certainly not naive about this whole theatre and that at the root of it all is money but however much the wages are these days shouldn’t alter the fact that players should have the right to make a choice about where they work. But what does strike me is that on the basis that managers and players all have the same motives, some are good at bit and some are bloody useless and MON certainly falls into the latter category. Whatever the outcome of the Barry case, he will almost certainly be booed at most grounds with little justification. Where are the FA, PL and PFA in situations like these? Does it really have to come down to the ramblings of FIFA’s resident nutcase to highlight what’s actually going on here?

 

Players have a choice as to whether to sign a contract and what terms go into that contract. If Ronaldo had a burning desire o play for Real at some point why did he not have an escape clause triggered by a certain fee in the contract? Likewise for Barry. They sign the contract, take the wages (however obscene they may be) and therefore have a commitment and a notice period (the term of their contract), if they change their minds then it is up to a potential buying club to make an acceptable offer. In the meantime the player can be rubbish, injured, suspended, in jail and still get paid.

 

I'm afraid i have little sympathy for the poor dears who are struggling to decide what to spend their latest million on. They sign the contract much like the rest of us at work and are bound by the terms. Tough. To even contemplate using the word slave is so disproportionate it has echoes of a spoilt child - but then afterall that is what a lot of footballers are - and we are the mugs that pay for it all.

[Guz]

How exactly would putting a transfer request in going to reduce Villa's asking price? They know he wants to leave anyway and have done so for over 2 months. Can talk about the loyalty bonus all day long but I dont see how much a transfer request is going to help except further brun bridges with a club he may eventually stay with (and has been with for 10 years)

 

No one is gonna boo Barry (except maybe the brummies), why the f*** would the rest of the country care?

[John am Rhein]

He should make up his mind, either he wants a move, in which case he hands in his transfer request and forfits any loyalty bonus, or stick around until the end of his contract

 

he can't have it both ways

 

Well apparently he can - which is part of the problem with the current system.

[John am Rhein]

Won't be too rational if it prices him out of his dream move, Rafa moves onto other targets and he is stuck at Villa.

 

He's obviously made a judgement that his best chance of getting the best amount of money is by approaching it the way he is - almost certainly with his agent in tacit co-ordination with us (i.e. Liverpool FC). Chances are he's right in that judgement - many players take the same approach in the same situation. It's entirely possible that he'll be unlucky and not get the outcome he's hoping for but that doesn't mean he didn't make the right judgement in the first place. As a worst case scenario he can just sit where he is - which isn't so disastrous a situation for him - and quite likely STILL get a better deal within 6-12 months anyway.