My tuppence worth

[Andy @ Allerton]

I've been going to the match since the 80s. I've had a season ticket for nigh on 20 years. But I'm wondering where the once great club that I supported all that time is going.

 

I'm not even remotely talking about the results on the pitch or the disappointment of the FA Cup defeat by Barnsley - only knee jerking fair weather fans would complain about little blips like our form.

 

I'm talking about the idea that the press and some fans are putting increasing pressure on the club to get shot of the best manager we've had here for around 20 years.

 

I've heard people on here laughably (And incredibly) saying that 'These are the darkest days for Liverpool FC' (Regarding the manager and the football - obviously we all know about the real dark days of the club) - but regarding the football and manager - this is where I'm really struggling. Assuming these people aren't around 10 years of age or so - can they not remember the days when Souness took over? Can they not remember the good crack at management - but the ultimate failure of the superb Roy Evans (A true Gentleman in the mould of Rafa) and the success. I won't put Gerard Houllier and Phil Thompsons role at the club in any light as a failure - it wasn't. They moved us forward with the facilities and the setup of the club - a platform that will serve any new manager well.

 

We've had real dross in the past - but that's nowhere near where we are now. I've heard some people talk about 'Exciting' football - I'm still not really sure what that is supposed to mean? I've been watching the game for around 30 years and I haven't got a clue what that is supposed to be? I know that it didn't really seem to be around or indeed a requirement until around 1992. We used to get up. Get on the lash. Watch the football. Hopefully win or at least draw and because we all loved football through and through - every game was enjoyable. It still is to me. I even enjoyed the Barnsley game (Even though we lost) - because I love going to watch the game that much. I would suggest to some people that think 'our football is boring' that they really, really look at themselves and see what they expect to see in a bunch of 22 fellas kicking a ball about on a pitch. It's not (to me) about 'excitement' or whatever the f*** Sky and the other sensationalist channels are bleating on about at the time - it's about support. It's about seeing a bunch of lads (And yes I know they are somewhat distanced by the ridiculous wages and expectation) kick a ball about for your club and you hoping and wishing for the best result. But then being able to handle the fact that (hopefully) football isn't fixed. Sometimes mad results happen. Sometimes they happen a bit too often. Sometimes (Like under Souness) it's a bit of a shock when results actually go your way.

 

But all that's by the by.

 

The thing is with Liverpool FC is that even when everything went wrong - they kept their quiet. They kept their dignity. Any dealings with the manager were private and were away from the press. We did things in a quiet, measured and controlled way. We took our time. We didn't rush. We tried to make the right choices at the right time with the right people in the right way.

 

But now I'm reading (And yes, I know the press is about as reliable as a fox in a chicken coop) that we're being linked with the likes of Mourinho, Martin O'Neill and some other bewildering names. I have to check that these people really are being linked with our great club. And I have to wonder what really is supposed to be going on.

 

Last year you'd know this was all your usual media guff - but now? With these new owners? With these 'fans'? With this situation at the club?

 

I'm sure that Mourinho and O'Neill are very nice people in their own right - but what other Liverpool board or owners would have brought these people in? Their style and their mentality doesn't to me tally up with the club. But it even goes further than this. Until recently (As little ago as the end of November last year - 2 and a half months, in fact). Everything at the club looked on course. The players were gaining in stature. The manager looked calm and composed. The owners looked like they were the ones that really should be at the helm of our great club. But then things started to get somewhat strange. A little bit weird.

 

Perhaps some of the 'fans' on here (And certainly the media) have affected the new owners of the club? Who knows? But one thing I do know is that things have never happened like this at Anfield. Things were never done this way - and if Rafa Benitez - and I can say this because I've seen us as we were - THE GREATEST MANAGER WE'VE HAD AT THE CLUB FOR 20 YEARS - gets binned - then that's a total disgrace. Those that want him gone should really hang their heads in shame. Go out. Get to HMV or a bit torrent site. Look at what we had to put up with with Souness and Evans and even with Gerard at the end when the wheels fell off. Look at the way our club AND OUR FANS behaved and conducted themselves. We (apparently) used to be known for our football nouse and knowledge. And that didn't include throwing the baby out with the dishwater. It didn't include wanting endless manager changes in a petulant attempt to get success NOW NOW NOW and play this elusive (And Sky-Engineered) 'Entertaining Football'. Football isn't there to Entertain. It's there just to be there for its supporters. You could argue that neutrals watching a game want to be entertained. Fine. Fair Enough. In My opinion these neutrals can f*** off - I'm not even remotely interested in what their wants and needs are. If you as a Liverpool Fan aren't 'Entertained' - go and watch something else. Go and DO something else. Football just obviously isn't for you.

 

The 'Entertainment' is in the highs. It's in the lows. It's in togetherness. It's in belief. It's in patience. It's in love of the club and It's in Support.

 

It isn't about Endless Success and winning and lording it over others. Endless success is a rare commodity in football of any generation.

 

I still Love the Club. I think the manager in place is a superb fella with his head screwed on. If these people doubting and judging and complaining just give him the time to do the job he obviously was born for - perhaps they may find that Entertainment in their appreciation of the game.

 

It's hard being a fan sometimes. But ultimately. If you stay with it. Stay calm. Take defeat in the way you take victory. Keep believing and keep supporting - well - how can that not be entertaining?

[sean]

I agree with the sentiment Anders but they're going to just love taking that apart on here, the way things have been of late.

[Hassony]

Great Post Andy

[ozmick]

Good post.

 

Been a fan for 40 years and spent the first 25 of them going to the match from around 1971. For me its the club Liverpool FC that I support. Managers, players and backroom staff have come and gone but its always been done the 'Liverpool Way'. I suppose when I was a young lad the players were my heroes but these days they are remote millionaires, many of them who I dont have any particular effection for apart from the fact they play for Liverpool

 

Modern fans demand instant success. The days of giving people like Slur Alex 4-5 years of 'trophyless' seasons are gone. And I dont see that ending soon. So some of the contributors on here reflect that. I dont have any problem with people discussing the game, managers and players on the forum, or the fact that some want rid of Rafa, it just seems some have the 'championship manager' mentality which reminds me of that joke team up North called Newcastle.

 

Hopefully we will stuff Inter tonight and give the fans something to get excited about. I do fear though that some people on here have already written Rafa's obituary and are just waiting to cut and paste if things go horribly wrong

[Rich Gobey]

It would be shocking if the crowd cried out "MOURINHO" but the board delivered O'Neill.

[leveller]

Great Post Andy

 

 

Excellent post Andy.....when I heard yet more reporst this morning on the radio about Rafa being on his way out....I felt sick...

Would be a massive mistake to get rid of him....

[Guest newfavouriteplayer]

good post, the ones that come from the heart always are.

 

even the people who don't see Benitez as the man to deliver the league (and i'm one) would agree his dignity and humility is what this club is about.

 

but is this the crux of the issue. putting this notion of humilty and the liverpool way above success. For me it's sentimentality and its been a problem at the club since Moores took over.

 

like you i grew up going to the match in the 80's. Liverpool then was about being an efficient winnning machine, still with the humilty but a ruthlessness that wasn't always likeable to other clubs or fans.

 

We seem to pride our likeability above success now.

 

In the 80's teams were built up with only one or two what you would call 'stars'. the rest were good players who were coached and managed in a way that the team performed better than the sum of its parts.

 

This is the reason why i do not think Benitez is a great manager. For too long the team has been performing worse than the sum of its parts.

 

but what i refuse to do is ignore all that because rafa is a 'decent' man.

[Hassony]

This is the reason why i do not think Benitez is a great manager. For too long the team has been performing worse than the sum of its parts.

 

Rafa is a great manager, whether you you think it or not

[Falconhoof]

Some good ideas in this post Andy. But, by and large the complaint isn't about 'entertainment' its mainly about 'effective' football. People are hacked off with what they are seeing on the pitch and its not just new fans its blokes in their 30s 40s 50s and older. I don't want endless success or entertainment, i'd like to see good football though.

[Will]

The 'Entertainment' is in the highs. It's in the lows. It's in togetherness. It's in belief. It's in patience. It's in love of the club and It's in Support.

[johngibo YPC]

The 'Entertainment' is in the highs. It's in the lows. It's in togetherness. It's in belief. It's in patience. It's in love of the club and It's in Support.

 

And in dancing in a square in a foreign country drunk as hell

[pipnasty]

Good post Andy - I like it a lot

[Bailo]

Excellent post Andy. Agree 100%.

[Boca]

Great post Andy. I'm not a regular match goer but that sums up pretty much how I feel.

[Mike]

Some good ideas in this post Andy. But, by and large the complaint isn't about 'entertainment' its mainly about 'effective' football. People are hacked off with what they are seeing on the pitch and its not just new fans its blokes in their 30s 40s 50s and older. I don't want endless success or entertainment, i'd like to see good football though.

 

thats right. you also want a team playing with passion and fight so the crowd can have something to get behind win lose or draw. its hard enough in these days of multimillionaire players and billionaire owners that have clubs as fashion accessories or franchises in a sports portfolio to feel a sense of identity with your club. but its harder still when you see lifeless, gutless football which is often played out infront of you now, its little wonder that many are disallusioned with the whole thing. a lot of people make noise about the fact that shanks went 6 seasons without a major trophy, but that team fought like demons and competed in a very tight league and gave there all, they also got rebuilt from an aging title winning team. it almost doesn't matter how s*** your team are, if they play with heart and give there all you can forgive a lot and will certainly get behind them. how many times can we say that in recent history?

[cocknose]

Are you going to put this on every forum?

[sutty]

thats right. you also want a team playing with passion and fight so the crowd can have something to get behind win lose or draw. its hard enough in these days of multimillionaire players and billionaire owners that have clubs as fashion accessories or franchises in a sports portfolio to feel a sense of identity with your club. but its harder still when you see lifeless, gutless football which is often played out infront of you now, its little wonder that many are disallusioned with the whole thing. a lot of people make noise about the fact that shanks went 6 seasons without a major trophy, but that team fought like demons and competed in a very tight league and gave there all, they also got rebuilt from an aging title winning team. it almost doesn't matter how s*** your team are, if they play with heart and give there all you can forgive a lot and will certainly get behind them. how many times can we say that in recent history?

 

I agree with alot of this

 

That said, I think there's some romantic notions in there. Fight and heart are easy to identify with if they have quality to go along with them

 

But how many people hated/disliked McAteer. Or Leonhardsen. Or Kuyt. They've got fight and heart, but we're used to seeing that combined with being good players.

 

The flip side is certainly true though. Showing no fight, or heart, or bottle is very difficult to understand as a match going fan. Going the match is the highlight of the week, and it costs people alot of money relative to their income (not you here Mike, I know it's a drop in your cash ocean). Seeing or perceiving that the passion is not being shared is a brutal feeling.

[PLY]

That's a post I've been wanting to write for about 5 years but have not been articulate enough to write. Thank You.

[Mike]

passion and heart is a style of play also don't forget. not just embodied in a willing donkey like kuyt.

its going at the other team and swarming all over them, not waiting till the last 10 minutes when we are a goal down and thinking, f***ing hell, we can play when we have to...

[Guest Ant]

Excellent post Andy.

[Des]

It isn't about Endless Success and winning and lording it over others. Endless success is a rare commodity in football of any generation.

 

Absolutely right.

[sutty]

passion and heart is a style of play also don't forget. not just embodied in a willing donkey like kuyt.

its going at the other team and swarming all over them, not waiting till the last 10 minutes when we are a goal down and thinking, f***ing hell, we can play when we have to...

 

I don't think that that is passion or heart that you are describing there tbh.

 

But I know what you mean. It's all very controlled, then it changes for the last 10. It almost seems desperate. There's a middle ground somewhere that would be useful to find I think.

[Munching Gladbach]

I agree with the first post. I have been supporting this club for a long time, like most of you, and would love to see us get back to the days where we were quite simply the best around. The way to do that, in my opinion, is to stick by a very talented manager, in what is admittedly a poor period results-wise, and give him the opportunity to move the club forward. Even if we don't win a trophy this year, sacking him would be hugely detrimental to this football club, and would set us back by years and years.

[Des]

I don't think that that is passion or heart that you are describing there tbh.

 

More like blind panic and desperation.

[D.Boon]

He gets next season as far as i am concerned even if we go out to Inter and finish outside the top 4.

 

If next season sees no improvement then he goes.