Are our expectations unrealistic?

[Wardy]

The Mancs win the league and add £50 Million worth of players to a title winning squad.

 

Chelsea have spent £300 Million on players since Abramovich took over.

 

Arsenal have a great manager and scouting system that's been in place for a long time.

 

When you look at it that way should we expect to be challenging for the league after spending £40 Million in one summer?

 

Probably not, being LFC doesn't give us a divine right to win anything and the fact is the clubs been mismanaged at the highest level since before Rick Parry arrived and I think those who are calling for a change of manager should remember that.

[Bailo]

Yes. To win this league we needed to overtake two teams who regularly spend in one close season what we spend in two. And another team that has given time and backing to a manager to implement an expensive youth policy, backed up with big money for one off players.

[Romario]

We have a worse home record than Bolton and Sunderland. That's not on with the players we have.

[Gilps]

There's all sorts of excuses you can make for those 3 being ahead of us (even if we've been slightly ahead of Arsenal the last couple of years), but there's no real excuse for us not at least remaining a safe distance in front of Everton, City, Villa and Portsmouth.

[Gunga Din]

two years ago we finished a point behing United and ahead of Arsenal. they have gone forwards, us backwards. you can w*** on about spending all you like, The Mancs have spent more, Arsenal less, but the fact is, in terms of winning the thing, we are a mile away. we havent even put up a realistic challenge since Evans was in charge

[Magic8Ball]

The Mancs win the league and add £50 Million worth of players to a title winning squad.

 

Chelsea have spent £300 Million on players since Abramovich took over.

 

Arsenal have a great manager and scouting system that's been in place for a long time.

 

When you look at it that way should we expect to be challenging for the league after spending £40 Million in one summer?

 

Probably not, being LFC doesn't give us a divine right to win anything and the fact is the clubs been mismanaged at the highest level since before Rick Parry arrived and I think those who are calling for a change of manager should remember that.

Expectation wise, we are newcastle !

Despite spending on a large squad Rafa does not have the quality, he has variation but not consistency. I think Rafa needs to look at consistency not variation.

 

With Agger being out we've lost the ability to play from the back

With Carra being off form ( for the first time in a while ) we are more dependant on Hyppia - but that means we've gone backwards 2 years in defense

playing Mash and Gerrard will not work most of the time - Gerrard attacks too much and there is a gulf between Mash and Gerrard - we need to find a way to play Gerro' Mash and Alonso as a trio in midfield

 

With Alonso missing we've lost some of our passing ability - despite Gerro' being there

 

we have no threat from the wings as we dont have a decent winger ( Babel is striker )

 

 

so yeah we are not doing as well as we expect because of problems we can fix, but these problems probably wont be fxed as Rafa's philosophy will need to change first

[Wardy]

we havent even put up a realistic challenge since Evans was in charge

 

Which is half my point.

[Mike]

two years ago we finished a point behing United and ahead of Arsenal. they have gone forwards, us backwards. you can w*** on about spending all you like, The Mancs have spent more, Arsenal less, but the fact is, in terms of winning the thing, we are a mile away. we havent even put up a realistic challenge since Evans was in charge

 

rafa is our ron atkinson

[Stevie H]

rafa is our ron atkinson

jesus, no need for that.

[matty]

rafa is our ron atkinson

 

Which makes you our Eamon Holmes?

[Eskimo]

There's all sorts of excuses you can make for those 3 being ahead of us (even if we've been slightly ahead of Arsenal the last couple of years), but there's no real excuse for us not at least remaining a safe distance in front of Everton, City, Villa and Portsmouth.

 

Despite finishing above Arsenal in recent years I would pitch us as the 4th place team of the so-called Big 4, that is working on the assumption that the PL is split into 4 groups - the Big 4, the UEFA group, mid table, relegation fodder. The problem is that we cannot compete on a financial level with two of the teams in our group and Arsenal are just Arsenal, if anything that gulf in spending has increased during Rafa's tenure.

 

The big worry now is that we are getting sucked back into the UEFA group and I'd say that a large part of that is down to the fact that clubs like Villa, City and Portsmouth (the chasing pack) have closed the financial gap.

[John am Rhein]

If winning the League is an 'expectation' then that's unrealistic.

 

If it's something we aim to compete seriously for in the longer term then I think that's realistic. But that shouldn't obscure the fact that we may NEVER win it - no matter how well managed the club is.

[Gilps]

Despite finishing above Arsenal in recent years I would pitch us as the 4th place team of the so-called Big 4, that is working on the assumption that the PL is split into 4 groups - the Big 4, the UEFA group, mid table, relegation fodder. The problem is that we cannot compete on a financial level with two of the teams in our group and Arsenal are just Arsenal, if anything that gulf in spending has increased during Rafa's tenure.

 

I don't disagree with that.

 

The worry, as you say, is that there's mounting evidence we're not staying ahead of the chasing pack, let alone getting closer to the top 3. That is less easy to excuse.

[Eskimo]

I don't disagree with that.

 

The worry, as you say, is that there's mounting evidence we're not staying ahead of the chasing pack, let alone getting closer to the top 3. That is less easy to excuse.

 

How so?

[CaptainXabi]

Our expectations are not unrealistic. If we stop believing we can do it, then we'll never make it. We'll never have the perfect squad. We'll never have 11 world class players. But we need to believe that we can do it. And the team needs to as well. And Rafa and the coaching staff need to. We need more 20 million players for sure, but we need our 10 million players to believe they are 20 million players first.

[Cobs]

How so?

try checking the current League table?

[Gilps]

How so?

 

I don't think those clubs have closed the financial gap to the extent that we should be caught by them. You're saying that this has happened largely on the last year or so of increased TV revnue and a couple of rich owners coming in.

 

Maybe that did level the playing field in the summer just gone, but no one could seriously argue that we haven't been financially ahead of all those clubs for years regardless of the gap to those above us. If those years of being ahead didn't give us enough of a cushion not to be eroded by one summer's work, then they should have done. Especially if we want to believe that it is years of being financially ahead of us that makes the Mancs so hard for us to catch in the short term.

[Rimbeux]

Our expectations are not unrealistic. If we stop believing we can do it, then we'll never make it. We'll never have the perfect squad. We'll never have 11 world class players. But we need to believe that we can do it. And the team needs to as well. And Rafa and the coaching staff need to. We need more 20 million players for sure, but we need our 10 million players to believe they are 20 million players first.

 

 

Agree with that. We should be closer and further away from those around us now, albeit all three having their best seasons for years and at a level that hasn't been seen among these positions for a while. I think our mentality, recruitment, stability etc can all be questioned. I dont think we've unearthed the sub £10m gems we've needed to on a consistent basis to really compete, not sure we've been buying the right kind of players (mental and physical capability) for the PL or for a title chasing squad, we've basically got what we've paid for.

[Eskimo]

I don't think those clubs have closed the financial gap to the extent that we should be caught by them. You're saying that this has happened largely on the last year or so of increased TV revnue and a couple of rich owners coming in.

 

Maybe that did level the playing field in the summer just gone, but no one could seriously argue that we haven't been financially ahead of all those clubs for years regardless of the gap to those above us. If those years of being ahead didn't give us enough of a cushion not to be eroded by one summer's work, then they should have done. Especially if we want to believe that it is years of being financially ahead of us that makes the Mancs so hard for us to catch in the short term.

 

Maybe the gap between us and the chasing back, using the 4 level approach from earlier, isn't as great as we imagined. The way I see it at least in financial terms is that we have been treading water, keeping just ahead of the chasing pack for the last 8 or so years. In the comfort zone as it were.

 

I think its also worth taking into account that during this 8 year period we have rebuilt the squad, twice!! We also suffered financially when GH and his team left £10m plus and don't forget the summer of Diouf, Bruno and Diao £20m down the s***ter.

 

City have certainly closed the gap, their spend since Sven arrived is over £30m and he's only been there 5 minutes.

[Paul]

Bottom line, we should be doing better.

Man U and Chelsea have spent more but whatever happened to the mantra 'the team is greater than the sum of it's parts' that used to get banded around here so frequently.

 

The fact is, we're not playing the top three teams every week - the rest of the teams we face are working with a smaller budget than ourselves.

What's the excuse for not beating those sides?

[Bailo]

I don't think those clubs have closed the financial gap to the extent that we should be caught by them. You're saying that this has happened largely on the last year or so of increased TV revnue and a couple of rich owners coming in.

Depends on how much money Shinawatra, Lerner, Ashley are committed to putting in from their own wallet to fund purchases. If they're adding £10m+ on top of regular spends, then were are going to need to match, if not, beat that, just to keep ahead of them.

[Gilps]

Depends on how much money Shinawatra, Lerner, Ashley are committed to putting in from their own wallet to fund purchases. If they're adding £10m+ on top of regular spends, then were are going to need to match, if not, beat that, just to keep ahead of them.

 

If it happens consistentlyover time, fair enough.

 

I just don't think we can justifiiably say on one hand that we can't hope to match the Mancs because they've outspent us for ears and then say on the other that we can't be expected to stay comfortably ahead of those we've outspent when they have one bumper summer.

[Eskimo]

If it happens consistentlyover time, fair enough.

 

I just don't think we can justifiiably say on one hand that we can't hope to match the Mancs because they've outspent us for ears and then say on the other that we can't be expected to stay comfortably ahead of those we've outspent when they have one bumper summer.

 

02/03

19 points off the winners

4 points ahead of 6th placed team

5 points ahead of 7th placed team

 

03/04

30 points off the winners

4 points ahead of 5/6th placed teams

7 points ahead of 7/8th placed teams

 

04/05

37 points off the winners

Same points as 6th placed teams (goal diff)

3 points ahead of 7th placed team

6 points ahead of 8/9th placed team

 

05/06

9 points off the winners

15 points ahead of 4th placed team

17 ahead of 5th placed team

 

06/07

21 points off the winners

same points as 4th placed team (goal diff)

8 points ahead of 5th placed team

10 points ahead of 6th placed team

 

The 1990's are fairly similar to those above bar the odd year here and there.

 

So I'd say we are closer to the chasing pack than we think. All it takes is for one them to invest £20m or so over a summer, have a couple of gems come throught the academy and they are right on our arses, as has happened at City for instance.

[Rich Gobey]

rafa is our ron atkinson

 

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Edited January 22, 2008 by Gobez

[charlie clown]

Gerro'