At least Rafa knows where we have to improve...

[alias75]

Didnt see the article mentioned on here but this quote really please me from Rafa..

 

"The difference with United and Chelsea is top-class players — all of them," he said.

 

"When you talk about spending £20m on Torres, how many £20m players do United have? Four or five. Why do you pay £20m? Because they are players who can change games.

 

"If you have one or two and they have four or five, that could be the difference."

 

I think most agree thats the crux of the issue, and the main difference between us and Utd or Chelsea or Arsenal especially when we play them its these top players that make the difference.

 

Personally i think we have lots of world class players in our squad, but for me the key is the majority of ours are defensive players, Reina, Agger, Carragher, Alonso, Mascherano are all world class players but they're not going to score many goals or get many assists and thats the difference between us and Man Utd and Arsenal.

 

We have Torres and Gerrard that are world class attacking players but thats it, its these type of players that make the difference when its tight and defenses are well organised.

 

What im really happy about is that Rafa has identified this too and hopefully he'll be given the money to buy those 20 million attacking players.

 

You may say its common sense that this is where the problem lies but you look at how other managers operate (and some of our past managers) and sometimes whats glaringly obvious to the fans isn't to the manager, at least Rafa acknowledges that with a strong squad in place the next step is adding those 2 or 3 real top class players.

[fred milne]

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

[Rimbeux]

It's not really a hard spot to suggest that getting two or three £20m players would improve the side. The actual questions are, what if we cant afford them and what are we going to do otherwise, because that's the likely reality.

[Rimbeux]

  Rimbeux said:

It's not really a hard spot to suggest that getting two or three £20m players would improve the side. The actual questions are, what if we cant afford them and what are we going to do otherwise, because that's the likely reality.

 

 

  fred milne said:

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

 

 

That conversation has gone on there for sure

[crisps]

  fred milne said:

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

 

...Arsenal have been playing well for years but not won much though have they. Wengers brought some real talents through that might not have cost much but over the years theyve had players who i'd say have been 20m players - vieira, henry, now fabregas and I'd say van persie isnt far off.

[Rimbeux]

  crisps said:

...Arsenal have been playing well for years but not won much though have they. Wengers brought some real talents through that might not have cost much but over the years theyve had players who i'd say have been 20m players - vieira, henry, now fabregas and I'd say van persie isnt far off.

 

There was a clear plan in tight financial times to invest their time, money and league position in young players to replace the unbeaten side, an extreme version of something that has been going on there since Wenger arrived. Even most of the fans bought into it, the belief they could develop £20m level players without the cost.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Rimbeux

[alias75]

  fred milne said:

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

 

Maybe Arsenal weren't the best example but you have to accept that Wenger is the best there is at spotting talent and most of his attacking players cost around 10 million and they've pretty much all come good. When your spending around the 5-10 million mark your taking a gamble that the player will step up, Wenger has got it right more times than most.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

  alias75 said:

Maybe Arsenal weren't the best example but you have to accept that Wenger is the best there is at spotting talent and most of his attacking players cost around 10 million and they've pretty much all come good. When your spending around the 5-10 million mark your taking a gamble that the player will step up, Wenger has got it right more times than most.

 

Hleb aside don't think they've gone past £10m since Reyes in 04 with Adebayor, Eduardo and Rosicky all around the £7m mark. Good dealing if lacking somewhat in short term rewards.

[Guest Kaizer]

  Florist Cinema Pond Goal said:

Hleb aside don't think they've gone past £10m since Reyes in 04 with Adebayor, Eduardo and Rosicky all around the £7m mark. Good dealing if lacking somewhat in short term rewards.

 

Walcott?

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

  Kaizer said:

Walcott?

 

Ah him, 5 going up to 10 or something of the sort was it not?

[Guest RedLegend]

  fred milne said:

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

 

True although they haven't won a trophy for three years. They might go on to win lots of league titles in the future but also possibly they might not.

 

Although I'm sure they have a couple of players who are worth in the region of £20M now.

Edited December 27, 2007 by RedLegend

[fred milne]

  Rimbeux said:

It's not really a hard spot to suggest that getting two or three £20m players would improve the side. The actual questions are, what if we cant afford them and what are we going to do otherwise, because that's the likely reality.

It probably goes against the grain with Rafa but reducing the size of the squad has to be an option. We might still be able to get decent money for the likes of Crouch, Kuyt, Pennant, Sissoko and Riise.

[Bootle Buck]

The problem is we have bought too many average players for around the 10-15 million range over the years (all not Rafa's). The likes of

 

EHD

Cisse

Kuyt

Heskey

Bellamy

Crouch

 

Those combined could have brought us 3 world class palyers that would have given us a chance to challenge for the league title by now.

[Mikey]

  fred milne said:

I can't think of too many £20m players at Arsenal.

If they were available in the January window Fabregas, Adebayor and Van Persie would all go for upwards of £20M, possibly Toure as well.

 

For us, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso possibly, Reina maybe.

 

Not a lot in it to be honest.

[Gunga Din]

  Mikey said:

If they were available in the January window Fabregas, Adebayor and Van Persie would all go for upwards of £20M, possibly Toure as well.

 

For us, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso possibly, Reina maybe.

 

Not a lot in it to be honest.

 

we're talking about players bought in for that

[Clay Davis]

  Mikey said:

If they were available in the January window Fabregas, Adebayor and Van Persie would all go for upwards of £20M, possibly Toure as well.

no chance.

Toure would.

[alias75]

  fred milne said:

It probably goes against the grain with Rafa but reducing the size of the squad has to be an option. We might still be able to get decent money for the likes of Crouch, Kuyt, Pennant, Sissoko and Riise.

 

I dont think he'll reduce the size of the squad but what he might do is use the reserves to bring in maybe 2 or 3 players to take up those 4th/5th choice positions in the squad. The quality in the reserves / U18s is as good as i can remember, its clearly a plan to bring more players from within the club into the first team squad, that would save millions on those fringe players and allow Rafa to use whatever money he has on players that will make a real difference in the first team.

 

You can talk about Arsenal but they havent won anything for 3 seasons, the team they have now is full of world class attacking players, ok they didnt have to pay 20 million to get them but they've been given the time to develop and there are a few in that team that would be worth those amounts now.

 

But if you look at the teams that have been winning the league lately, i.e Man Utd and Chelsea they are full of expensive world class players or the very top end of the youth market. Utd won the league and then bought, Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani and Tevez on top of what they already had that says it all.

 

Im convinced if Ronaldo played for us and not Man Utd we'd win the league, thats the difference truly world class attacking players can make.

[Sion]

Our problem in the past few years is having such a s*** squad we can't just spend all our summer spending on one or two players like United. I've seen a spreadsheet someone of redcafe has made comparing Rednose and Rafa's transfers and apart from it being hideously inaccurate and hugely selective (I.E. claiming Lucas cost his whole future dependent fee of £8m but not using Anderson and Nani's of £17m), they are arguing we've spent about the same amount on players and should be challenging for the league, but it just doesn't work like that. Now we have an improved squad we can afford to buy the Torres and Villa's of this World instead of the Bellamy and Pennants.

 

Here's the site http://biawc.110mb.com/

[Gunga Din]

  Bootle Buck said:

The problem is we have bought too many average players for around the 10-15 million range over the years (all not Rafa's). The likes of

 

EHD

Cisse

Kuyt

Heskey

Bellamy

Crouch

 

Those combined could have brought us 3 world class palyers that would have given us a chance to challenge for the league title by now.

 

is the right answer. in 15 years our net spend is 35mil less than the Mancs. since Rafa came its about the same. the difference is they go and buy players they need now, we end up buying 2 or 3 players who we sort of need but not really addressing the immediate issues, meaning we always seem to be "2 or 3 players" away from a title challenge. a couple of seasons ago we finished a point behind the mancs. we all laughed as they went and only bought Carrick. we spent a fortune on mediocre players, Kuyt, Bellamy, Pennant etc. they bought exactly what they needed, he might nt have been as good as our central midfielders, but it was what they needed. we at that point were crying out for a top quality striker and a right winger. had we just concentrated on that we would have been a lot better off in my opinion.

[RafaShanks]

We've spent a lot of money and on s**** players over the years.

 

It's about buying the right players. Sometimes you have to spend more than our valuation to get them.

 

Hopefully some of our youngsters will make the grade and save us some money in the future.

[Stevie H]

  Florist Cinema Pond Goal said:

Hleb aside don't think they've gone past £10m since Reyes in 04 with Adebayor, Eduardo and Rosicky all around the £7m mark. Good dealing if lacking somewhat in short term rewards.

think adebayor only cost about £2.6m or something.

[alias75]

  Sion said:

Our problem in the past few years is having such a s*** squad we can't just spend all our summer spending on one or two players like United. I've seen a spreadsheet someone of redcafe has made comparing Rednose and Rafa's transfers and apart from it being hideously inaccurate and hugely selective (I.E. claiming Lucas cost his whole future dependent fee of £8m but not using Anderson and Nani's of £17m), they are arguing we've spent about the same amount on players and should be challenging for the league, but it just doesn't work like that. Now we have an improved squad we can afford to buy the Torres and Villa's of this World instead of the Bellamy and Pennants.

 

Here's the site http://biawc.110mb.com/

 

Completely agree with that, id like to see how many players Ferguson turned over in his first 3 or 4 years in charge, you cant compare the transfer activity of Ferguson and Rafa because Ferguson's been in that job long enough to have complete control over the squad he also inherited one of the best batch of young players we've seen which saved him millions and allowed him to spend big on the positions that needed it most.

 

You only have to look at the number of 15 million plus players Utd have bought in the past 10 years to see they're able to add 1 or 2 world class players to their squad because Ferguson's had the time to get the squad he wants, id say Rafa is in that position now.

 

Everyone knows when he got here Rafa inherited a squad full of low quality players on big wages that GH wasnt able to shift, hes had to do a lot of wheeling and dealing to get rid of the dross and build a squad that hes happy with id say we're at that point now, the next step is adding that top quality to it.

[fred milne]

  Steve H said:

think adebayor only cost about £2.6m or something.

Thought he was a lot more than that. £6m-7m at least.

[DarthVader]

So I guess the question now should be which world class players should we go out and sign that would cost a bit of money but at the same time could transform us into Premiership winners.

 

From the EPL: Berbatov,Anelka,Agbonlahor

From Bundesliga: Ribery,Lahm,Diego

From Serie A: Totti, Chielini

 

What are the options for us?

[Sion]

  fred milne said:

Thought he was a lot more than that. £6m-7m at least.

 

Nah it was deffo around £3m