Gerrard and Masch in the middle

[Molby]

so easy for us to go from looking like world beater to looking clueless

 

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided - neither one gets to concentrate fully on what they are good at/both of them are forced to do a good deal of what they are not very good at

 

desperate for Lucas to come in tomorrow, or indeed any one of the many formations that we could employ that avoids these two in CM together

 

hopefully no Kuyt and Voronin as a forward pairing either, but that goes without saying

[StevieC]

Really?

 

Masch winning the ball and playing deep to give Gerrard licence to attack and act as more of a playmaker makes sense to me.

 

Where's the imbalance?

[abc]

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided

 

You obviously have NOT seen Gerrard and Sissoko or even Mascherano and Sissoko play together...

[fyds]

so easy for us to go from looking like world beater to looking clueless

 

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided - neither one gets to concentrate fully on what they are good at/both of them are forced to do a good deal of what they are not very good at

 

desperate for Lucas to come in tomorrow, or indeed any one of the many formations that we could employ that avoids these two in CM together

 

hopefully no Kuyt and Voronin as a forward pairing either, but that goes without saying

I'm stumped by that mate - seems almost the opposite view of what I've seen, That said, I'm a big Lucas fan already.

[Molby]

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided

 

You obviously have NOT seen Gerrard and Sissoko or even Mascherano and Sissoko play together...

no I'd written them of as formations we won't see anytime again soon

 

in terms of partnerships that look viable on paper but on closer examination, are not, this is one that could seriously undermine us

[Hightown Phil]

I don't think it's anything to do with how they play together, it's to do with Gerrard not being a central midfielder anymore. I say anymore, i don't really think he's ever been one.

[Molby]

Really?

 

Masch winning the ball and playing deep to give Gerrard licence to attack and act as more of a playmaker makes sense to me.

 

Where's the imbalance?

 

 

the lack of playmaker

 

one specialises in winning the ball all over the park and playing a simple pass

 

the other specialises in joining the play explosively, through the middle or wide

 

no playmaker - the more touches they take in build up play, the more it's going wrong for us

 

BUT, if we had attacking full backs that were comfortable on the ball and could carry the ball out and attack, like Neal and Kennedy of old, then we'd be rocking - see that? just a difefrent way of starting the play - tbh booting the ball straight up to Crouch and Torres would aslo work handsomely IMO

 

having Kewell back would make a big difference but in the big games, I honestly think we'll get nowhere with the two in CM in a 4-4-2

 

what's not to like? add Xabi and it suddenly looks world class IMO

[abc]

no I'd written them of as formations we won't see anytime again soon

 

in terms of partnerships that look viable on paper but on closer examination, are not, this is one that could seriously undermine us

 

I think Gerrard needs to learn how to play the pass and move game a little better, in the way that Alonso does it. Pass it off, then follow the ball and ask for it again. Gerrard stands off play far too often (alot of the time because he switches play when he shouldn't) when he should be playing more short and quick one-two's and progressively moving the ball forward, with himself being in the thick of it. If he can learn to do that, he'll be able to make up for his midfield partner's lack of technical skill. Not that Mascherano is not adept technically, but to an extent I see where you're coming from with your point.

[Molby]

I don't think it's anything to do with how they play together, it's to do with Gerrard not being a central midfielder anymore. I say anymore, i don't really think he's ever been one.

 

yes and no Phil

 

put him in a 5 man midfield or a 4-3-3 and it looks different

 

to refine what you say, I reckon he may not be a WC CM in a 4-4-2

 

in fact he's proved that time and time again for Ingerlund

 

so close to having an unstoppable team now, if we avoid more serious injury and if we box clever with what players are available

[Molby]

I think Gerrard needs to learn how to play the pass and move game a little better, in the way that Alonso does it. Pass it off, then follow the ball and ask for it again. Gerrard stands off play far too often (alot of the time because he switches play when he shouldn't) when he should be playing more short and quick one-two's and progressively moving the ball forward, with himself being in the thick of it. If he can learn to do that, he'll be able to make up for his midfield partner's lack of technical skill. Not that Mascherano is not adept technically, but to an extent I see where you're coming from with your point.

 

 

agree completely

 

but he's not 20 anymore - I'd work around what we have rather than try to change the way people play, wherever possible

[alias75]

Agree with the general point of the first post although i disagree that Gerrard/Mascherano is the worst central midfield pairing we could pick, but i certainly think we're a better side playing Mascherano with Alonso or Lucas with Gerrard given license to play wherever he wants. And i certainly think Stevies best games in recent weeks have come in that type of formation.

[Hightown Phil]

yes and no Phil

 

put him in a 5 man midfield or a 4-3-3 and it looks different

 

to refine what you say, I reckon he may not be a WC CM in a 4-4-2

 

in fact he's proved that time and time again for Ingerlund

 

so close to having an unstoppable team now, if we avoid more serious injury and if we box clever with what players are available

 

If you play a 4-3-3, would he not be playing in a free role though? He usually does, that, for me, either drifting from the right, or just off a lone front man.

 

He's at his best when you stick him on the pitch and just tell him to forget about position, forget about discipline and just play football.

[Knox_Harrington]

Gerrard's an impact player. A brilliant one. But impact players can only really be effective in the final third; it's very hard, especially from central areas, to genuinely impact upon a game from 40 yards out. Any shape and line up that gets Gerrard on it consistently in the final third is one I want to see.

[Guest Sabre]

Completely agree with Molby and Knox. Gerrard needs someone to create the opportunities for him and Masch needs someone to collect the ball and move it across the midfield to create space.

[josemisuncle]

so easy for us to go from looking like world beater to looking clueless

 

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided - neither one gets to concentrate fully on what they are good at/both of them are forced to do a good deal of what they are not very good at

 

desperate for Lucas to come in tomorrow, or indeed any one of the many formations that we could employ that avoids these two in CM together

 

hopefully no Kuyt and Voronin as a forward pairing either, but that goes without saying

Wow! I would have said almost the opposite. Are you sure your views aren't coloured by the fact that most times both have played together that SG was off form?

[Knox_Harrington]

Completely agree with Molby and Knox. Gerrard needs someone to create the opportunities for him and Masch needs someone to collect the ball and move it across the midfield to create space.

I don't think either needs both but you get the best out of both if you have someone who can do that. Thankfully we do and his name is Xabi Alonso.

 

Gerrard should either be the midfield apex of a 433 or the right hand sided player with licence to roam in a 442/4231.

[Magic8Ball]

for me, this combination, above all others, is the one to be avoided

 

You obviously have NOT seen Gerrard and Sissoko or even Mascherano and Sissoko play together...

Eggers- ackerly!!! this is what I keep saying we need to sell Momo and get another (better DM )

[josemisuncle]

agree completely

 

but he's not 20 anymore - I'd work around what we have rather than try to change the way people play, wherever possible

Agree. Gerrard is never going to change. You need to play to his strengths.

[josemisuncle]

Eggers- ackerly!!! this is what I keep saying we need to sell Momo and get another (better DM )

Do you really think we need another one? 4 for now is good and we have a fair few coming through that could do a job in the lesser games e.g. Spearing

[Magic8Ball]

Do you really think we need another one? 4 for now is good and we have a fair few coming through that could do a job in the lesser games e.g. Spearing

Its more I dont think Momo has that much to offer us anymore. Sure he can be useful but as he can only play with Alonso and his passings poor, he's kind of limited

[Ben 23]

Alonso and Mascherano together are the best partnership in my opinion. With Gerrard out on the right. I don't think Gerrard works in a midfield two with anyone anymore.

[josemisuncle]

Its more I dont think Momo has that much to offer us anymore. Sure he can be useful but as he can only play with Alonso and his passings poor, he's kind of limited

For sure, Momo, I'm sad to say because I love his attitude, is too limited. He's good if you want someone to press high up the pitch, but how often do you need that and how much worse is Kuyt at that.

 

Like you, I don't think the upside is worth it. I'd still give one of the younger lads a chance though. Lucas has shown he can play at the EPL level so I think we have four solid and complementary CMs.

[josemisuncle]

Alonso and Mascherano together are the best partnership in my opinion. With Gerrard out on the right. I don't think Gerrard works in a midfield two with anyone anymore.

In theory yes, but SG gets a strop whenever he plays on the right. Doesn't stay out wide and unbalances the team, so I don't think it would work long term.

[mathewbet1]

Out of the two, I think Masch is the one that needs to develop, he needs to become more 'alonso-like' in his passing decisons. Granted not many player have the ability or range of an onform xabi (you could argue that xabi has been off form for 18 months, compared to his first season - another story!) But even an 'off form' xabi dictates the pace of the play , and is always available to recieve the ball form defenders and midfielders alike. I'd compare Xabi to a 'water carrier with bells and whistles', he carries the 'water' but also comes up with a few '60 yard sepcials'. Masch has time and ability one his side. One thing ive noticed with mashc, is that if his first 2 or 3 passes go astray, then his passing remains poor for most of the game, probably a confidence thing.

[Guz]

In theory yes, but SG gets a strop whenever he plays on the right.

 

No he doesn't. He's played in every attacking position (plus right back in Istanbul) under Rafa because he is willing to do so for the team. he is that f***ing good and because Rafa trusts him to do it above any other player he has worked with at Liverpool. As far as I'm concerned, if Rafa decides to play him through the middle it's because he's much happier with what Pennant, Babel and Benayoun can offer.

 

Personally I think his future lies starting from a wide position (or a free role in a 433) and if there's any one player over the last 20 years I'd compare him to it would be Pavel Nedved. Nedved was capable of covering every blade of grass on the pitch and also had the ability to play in a variety of formations but ultimately his best work always came in the final third of the pitch.