A few good men needed

[Molby]

we as a club are in a crisis far deeper than is being expressed in the Rafa press conference thread

 

what I'm asking is this: regardless of whether you believe this, or if you believe me, or if you think I might just have known a few things after all, or if you consider me a complete k****ead...forget all that

IF you thought that the 'owners' wanted Rafa sacked, have no intention of putting up any money of their own, are committed to bank funding for 100% of the investment needed for the new stadium and new players, and because of the economic climate in the US, are currently facing the distinct possibility of not raising the funds for the above...lets say you believe all the above to be true

 

my question: would you be willing to do anything about it? that's all I want to know at this stage, because I'm about to get political

 

simple question, no moral duty implied - we all have lives to lead and our own committment to this club and limits to how we see our participation and that's fine

 

but I'm interested to see how many of you, if you believe the above to be true, would do things like boycott the games - let me rephrase: buy tickets/renew season tickets as normal, and then not go the game

 

because if the stadium were empty 5 games in a row, this pair of w***ers would pack up and go home, Parry would be out and DIC could come in

 

again, this is not about debating what's actually going on - I'm asking, if you believed that things were the way I described them, what would you be willing to do?

[David Hodgson]

Armed revolt.

 

Or at least get very very cross about things on the internet.

 

Internet 'warriors' are you up for it ?

 

Joking aside, this is becoming the bad dream, it always had hints of becoming.

[Guest Cardie]

I know you've said this is not about debate but what makes you so sure DIC are the answer?

 

Feel free to answer it in the Press conference thread and I'll edit it this question out if you want.

[David Hodgson]

I know you've said this is not about debate but what makes you so sure DIC are the answer?

 

Feel free to answer it in the Press conference thread and I'll edit it this question out if you want.

 

If the Americans are ready to sack Rafa now, then anyone but them is 'the answer'.

[smicer07]

DIC might easily have already got rid of Rafa, who knows?

[Guest Cardie]

But I don't believe they are, you may do and may have sources or just take Bascombe at his word that's your perogative.

 

Personally the fact that DIC were planning to sell us within 7 years and have done the very same thing to the Tussauds group suggests we'd be no better off than we are now in the short term and worse off in the long term.

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

[Frosty Jack]

Cometh the hour:

 

and the new stadium would switch:

[David Hodgson]

But I don't believe they are, you may do and may have sources or just take Bascombe at his word that's your perogative.

 

Personally the fact that DIC were planning to sell us within 7 years and have done the very same thing to the Tussauds group suggests we'd be no better off than we are now in the short term and worse off in the long term.

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

 

Forget DIC. The issue before is us is possibly the chronic mismanagement of the club by it's current owners.

[Rimbeux]

It's a tough process.

 

Complete belief in and exposure of a monumental f*** up at hand.

 

The identification of a real solution that actually improves the situation and resolves the f*** up

 

The ability to influence a that solution coming into action.

 

 

 

You've made your punts on all of these points and it could work, however it's what it would take for G&T to give up the prize, and if the solution is there and waiting that are key.

 

I dont actually think there would be a shortage of buyers, I think the dance around from Moores was mainly in his own rightful suspicion of prospectors. Who could judge if the right move is made, G&T would be looking at return, who is there to keep it from getting worse. I've seen parallels with the process that sold the great MCA entertainment company to Japanese industrialists who couldn't handle it and shoved along to an even worse pair of hands, a situation it never recovered from.

 

Also for guys who seem to think, probably with justification up till now, that manipulating and charming the fans is no great difficulty, I wonder if they wouldn't be convinced they could ride out any protest and stay in the game. They've seen the Glazers do it.

[Molby]

But I don't believe they are, you may do and may have sources or just take Bascombe at his word that's your perogative.

 

Personally the fact that DIC were planning to sell us within 7 years and have done the very same thing to the Tussauds group suggests we'd be no better off than we are now in the short term and worse off in the long term.

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

 

 

to keep it simple, EVERY business plan has an exit strategy

 

and that of G and H is 3 to 5 years btw

 

the DIC exit strategy was leaked by our board as a smokescreen to justify their getting more money - no other reason

 

but enough; we can discuss these things elsewhere

[Molby]

It's a tough process.

 

Complete belief in and exposure of a monumental f*** up at hand.

 

The identification of a real solution that actually improves the situation and resolves the f*** up

 

The ability to influence a that solution coming into action.

You've made your punts on all of these points and it could work, however it's what it would take for G&T to give up the prize, and if the solution is there and waiting that are key.

 

I dont actually think there would be a shortage of buyers, I think the dance around from Moores was mainly in his own rightful suspicion of prospectors. Who could judge if the right move is made, G&T would be looking at return, who is there to keep it from getting worse. I've seen parallels with the process that sold the great MCA entertainment company to Japanese industrialists who couldn't handle it and shoved along to an even worse pair of hands, a situation it never recovered from.

 

Also for guys who seem to think, probably with justification up till now, that manipulating and charming the fans is no great difficulty, I wonder if they wouldn't be convinced they could ride out any protest and stay in the game. They've seen the Glazers do it.

 

 

all valid points

 

now: what would you do to help?

[Rimbeux]

But I don't believe they are, you may do and may have sources or just take Bascombe at his word that's your perogative.

 

Personally the fact that DIC were planning to sell us within 7 years and have done the very same thing to the Tussauds group suggests we'd be no better off than we are now in the short term and worse off in the long term.

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

 

 

If they were hands off or present with the authority to get things done, we'd likely be better off. Long term who knows, an exit after 7 years would suggest a plan to increase the value being executed. That plan would be a new ground, two new tv deals negotiated in that time, potentially even the first individual ones, and other commercial deals renegotiated. Bigger cash flow, club worth more, sell it on. To who is obviously a fear, but the 7 years wouldn't be any different in principal to what G&T are planning, it's the manner that may be different. Where to go after 7 years is also a question for G&T. They've got to make their return sometime and their stock in trade is acquisition and disposal, it's very much when, not if they sell up.

 

The real issue here right now is the micro-managing of something they dont fully understand, rather than place the best they can find who do understand it in charge and let them go.

 

 

Apologies also for the hijack

[psl]

I don't see the point of a thread seeking to address what remain hypothetical problems.

 

Actually, I'd like to know how everyone would react if it turned out that Rafa had been negotiating with Madrid and had already persuaded Pepe, Xabi and Torres to follow him over. Not asking whether anyone believes it or not, just what would you be willing to do if it were true? No moral duty implied.

[alias75]

Ron Paul a Republican candidate for US President raised $4.4 million on Nov 5th all donations over the internet. There must be millions of Liverpool fans worldwide if the worst case scenario happens id like to think the fans would do something about it.

[Molby]

I don't see the point of a thread seeking to address what remain hypothetical problems.

 

Actually, I'd like to know how everyone would react if it turned out that Rafa had been negotiating with Madrid and had already persuaded Pepe, Xabi and Torres to follow him over. Not asking whether anyone believes it or not, just what would you be willing to do if it were true? No moral duty implied.

 

 

I'd be doing my best to make sure he stayed, so that didn't happen

 

now please answer the question or feck off (seriously, you know I have nothing against you but this is serious, help me out)

[Rimbeux]

all valid points

 

now: what would you do to help?

 

 

Whatever it took to hit all three marks, practical and supportive, even buying an empty seat

 

 

It's an information game this one

[Spike]

anything

[Sion]

Tell me i'm burying my head in the sand if you like, but I think a few people are getting too carried away based on hearsay and gossip. I'll wait for things to become more clear before nailing my colours to the mast. If it turns out what has been implied is actually true i'd be willing to fight for my club, but as already mentioned we have seen with the Glaziers this could have little effect. I'm sure if Rafa was as close to being sacked as is being mentioned he would know about it, and wouldn't stand for it. As it is he is still our manager. G+H aren't that stupid, they know sacking Rafa could have massive negative consequences off the field, as well as on it, and for them to both agree Rafa needs sacking after not long ago praising him to high heaven would seem a little bizarre to me

 

I think the most important matter is however, if we form FCUL can I play right mid?

[Molby]

Ron Paul a Republican candidate for US President raised $4.4 million on Nov 5th all donations over the internet. There must be millions of Liverpool fans worldwide if the worst case scenario happens id like to think the fans would do something about it.

thanks

[Molby]

anything

thanks

[Molby]

Whatever it took to hit all three marks, practical and supportive, even buying an empty seat

It's an information game this one

thanks

[Billy Dane]

Boycotting some televised games, or making a protest as we did in the Arsenal game, would have the most impact.

[Guest Cardie]

If they were hands off or present with the authority to get things done, we'd likely be better off. Long term who knows, an exit after 7 years would suggest a plan to increase the value being executed. That plan would be a new ground, two new tv deals negotiated in that time, potentially even the first individual ones, and other commercial deals renegotiated. Bigger cash flow, club worth more, sell it on. To who is obviously a fear, but the 7 years wouldn't be any different in principal to what G&T are planning, it's the manner that may be different. Where to go after 7 years is also a question for G&T. They've got to make their return sometime and their stock in trade is acquisition and disposal, it's very much when, not if they sell up.

 

The real issue here right now is the micro-managing of something they dont fully understand, rather than place the best they can find who do understand it in charge and let them go.

Apologies also for the hijack

 

With DIC I've gone off what they've done with Tussauds which may or may not be a fair comparison but seems pretty close to the plan they had for us.

 

The bought Tussauds in 05 and in 07 sold it to the Blackstone Group (maintaining 20%) who then merged wth Merlin who then sold of chunks to a private investor who then leased chunks out.

 

They've been through 5 changes of ownership in 2 years all after DIC executed a plan that on the face of it seem's no different to what they had planned for us.

[ali]

just say the word M

[Rimbeux]

With DIC I've gone off what they've done with Tussauds which may or may not be a fair comparison but seems pretty close to the plan they had for us.

 

The bought Tussauds in 05 and in 07 sold it to the Blackstone Group (maintaining 20%) who then merged wth Merlin who then sold of chunks to a private investor who then leased chunks out.

 

They've been through 5 changes of ownership in 2 years all after DIC executed a plan that on the face of it seem's no different to what they had planned for us.

 

 

I agree it doesn't paint them as shinning knights, and if I'm not mistaken, they made a hefty profit on the deal to sell it on?

 

That's the thing, since Moores decided he wanted out and went looking for Abramovich, in the absence of that or him coming to some accord with a very rich fan, we were only ever going to attract venture capitalists who buy and sell on with as little exposure and as high a return as possible. Thing for me was how they went about it, would it be smooth hands off affair that gave the football business a scope/budget and autonomy to get on with it, while delivering the stadium that will deliver their return? It was about how much stability you keep on the football side.

 

What happens after that is open for debate, but in the absence of an old style fan chairman who then comes in to an already modernised business with nothing but custodian ambitions, we'd almost be better off major and not majority ownership from a few parties, with a board of directors appointing a CEO to run things with authority.