The 'this forum is/isn't as good as it was/everyone has opinions blah blah thread

[anny road]

but it has

 

up till a few months, maybe weeks ago...it was percieved that anyone criticising Rafa or the club, were jumped upon a "forum clique" and the In Rafa we trust brigade (of which I am supposed to be one)

 

Now anyone daring to post anythign remotely positive is jumped on by a certain few posters and are accused of being blind to the truth and looking through Rafa tinted glasses.....even if that poster says that he or she doesnt think everything is right, but ultimatley trusts the manager

 

I havnt posted on here for the past few weeks recently, because a) i have been busy and b) its depressing on here

 

but looking through the threads today, it has totally altered

[melia]

I've used the ignore function on a couple of people for the first time this week. Not because I particularly disagree with them but because they are repeating themselves continually. It's starting to look a little rabid.

[anny road]

the blackburn thread is the one

 

i wont post in there...no point

 

performance poor (bar last 30 mins)....result ok...he chould play crouch and arbeloa...i think he f***ed up...

 

but the reaction is hysterical

[JRC]

I haven't posted for ages for the dsame reason. Apart from the negative posts - people are entitled etc., etc. - I can't stand that those self-same posters keep stressing their status as martyrs because they are constantly abused, because no-one ever bothers to make a decent argument against them, because of agressive 'superfans' etc. Yet it seems to me that the most agressive 'superfannery' is from those self-same posters insisting that anyone who doesn't agree with them is blind, or at least wearing rose-tinted spectacles, does not care, does not have the long term interests of the club at heart, does not accept that Rafa can ever make mistakes, is perfectly happy with the way we are playing at the moment, is settling for mediocrity (including, ironically, the admonition that they should thus go and support Spurs, the very kind of charge they so object to themselves), can not, in effect, see what they can. There is, in many, a huge intolerance - almost a failure of comprehension - for anyone who refuses to see things in the worst possible light. I don't feel the need to justify myself, and my support, to unreasonable people.

 

They (not all, I accept) make a big fuss about the (selective) responses they get, yet are more guilty of being abusive, high and mighty and non-rational than many of those they accuse; they also regularly ignore or avoid serious debate with anyone who tries to present an alternative viewpoint - one of the long threads from last week had in the initial post something like '..and if you don't agree with me, there's no point posting..' (paraphrased), which attitude was maintained throughout; after pages of other like-minded posters agreeing, a fair amount, I accept, abusing - more of the stop whinging type than f*** off type, but ad hominem none the less - and a lot of posters making contrary arguments, the initial poster dismissed the alternative viewpoints as 'can't argue, won't argue'; all in all a complete denial of the very possibility of debate which they self-righteously claim as the justification for their own position, and the raison d'etre of these forums.

 

What summed it up for me was one of the more insistently negative posters (may have been on another forum, but the principle remains) claiming the truth for their negativity (and that of their ilk) was because they alone had 'objective opinions' - a wonderful, delusional, unarguable and disturbing oxymoron if ever there was.

[mathewbet1]

Picture a few months ahead and say we go on a winning streak sitting pretty in the league, all these negative people never seem to remember there depressing and overreactionry posts, weve played 11 gaves for ffs. Infact a sign of a good team is getting results when your playin badly the mancs and chelski specialse in that. When torres and co. are back I think well start destroying teams................................

[Guest Ant]

Not really

 

People can post their opinions if they want to, I actually think the responses to such criticisms to the team/manager such as this one are within itself hysterical.

 

I mean people have over reacted to my posts and have said I want Benitez sacked, yet I have not once said I wanted him so.

 

I've said it once before that people are more interested at making personal swipes at people when they have a go at a said player ot Benitez then actually discussing the points raised.

[Puskas]

I haven't posted for ages for the dsame reason. Apart from the negative posts - people are entitled etc., etc. - I can't stand that those self-same posters keep stressing their status as martyrs because they are constantly abused, because no-one ever bothers to make a decent argument against them, because of agressive 'superfans' etc. Yet it seems to me that the most agressive 'superfannery' is from those self-same posters insisting that anyone who doesn't agree with them is blind, or at least wearing rose-tinted spectacles, does not care, does not have the long term interests of the club at heart, does not accept that Rafa can ever make mistakes, is perfectly happy with the way we are playing at the moment, is settling for mediocrity (including, ironically, the admonition that they should thus go and support Spurs, the very kind of charge they so object to themselves), can not, in effect, see what they can. There is, in many, a huge intolerance - almost a failure of comprehension - for anyone who refuses to see things in the worst possible light. I don't feel the need to justify myself, and my support, to unreasonable people.

 

They (not all, I accept) make a big fuss about the (selective) responses they get, yet are more guilty of being abusive, high and mighty and non-rational than many of those they accuse; they also regularly ignore or avoid serious debate with anyone who tries to present an alternative viewpoint - one of the long threads from last week had in the initial post something like '..and if you don't agree with me, there's no point posting..' (paraphrased), which attitude was maintained throughout; after pages of other like-minded posters agreeing, a fair amount, I accept, abusing - more of the stop whinging type than f*** off type, but ad hominem none the less - and a lot of posters making contrary arguments, the initial poster dismissed the alternative viewpoints as 'can't argue, won't argue'; all in all a complete denial of the very possibility of debate which they self-righteously claim as the justification for their own position, and the raison d'etre of these forums.

 

What summed it up for me was one of the more insistently negative posters (may have been on another forum, but the principle remains) claiming the truth for their negativity (and that of their ilk) was because they alone had 'objective opinions' - a wonderful, delusional, unarguable and disturbing oxymoron if ever there was.

An excellent post, I agree with most of that.

 

I would add to that there's a lot of monochrome opinions out there - everything is either black or white. Either a result is fantastic or it's terrible. Either a performance is fantastic or terrible. There doesn't seem to be such a thing as a 'half-decent' result or a 'not bad' performance any more. I blame Sky and the media for a lot of this - with their constant barrage of hype and dramatic hyperbole. Apparently it will be a 'catastrophe' if Liverpool don't qualify for the knockout stages of the European Cup. Frankly I find this attitude astonishing - Liverpool supporters know better than most EXACTLY what constitutes a f***ing catastrophe. Failing to qualify for the latter stages of the European Cup would be a disappointment, nothing more.

 

I'm going to be scaling down my posting and the frequency of my visits here as well. There's plenty of other places I can go if all I want to hear is repetitive and relentless negativity.

[Bailo]

People can post their opinions if they want to

That gets my goat the most. No-one is saying you can't, but when reasoned debate occurs, it degenerates into "I know better than Rafa" type s***.

[cymrococh]

That gets my goat the most. No-one is saying you can't, but when reasoned debate occurs, it degenerates into "I know better than Rafa" type s***.

"why can't Rafa see this?" is becoming incredibly tedious.

[pipnasty]

"why can't Rafa see this?" is becoming incredibly tedious.

 

Not as tedious as the 'if you don't agree with me that means you think that everything is 100% rosey' argument

[RP]

Not as tedious as the 'if you don't agree with me that means you think that everything is 100% rosey' argument

 

 

Not an argument I have seen anyone use.

[Gunga Din]

i think the football forum has been at its best, debate wise, for a long time, and the past few weeks have seen some excellent threads and some excellent posts. its a pretty boring place when everyone agrees, and at the minute there are some excellent threads on the go.

[Stevie H]

Not as tedious as the 'if you don't agree with me that means you think that everything is 100% rosey' argument

that's the worst one. soon as you lose the shades of grey and it becomes polarised, you really have turned into 606.

[Tosh]

I've an idea. Let's a few of us set up on our own. How about Bestmidfieldintheworld.tv?

[pipnasty]

Not an argument I have seen anyone use.

 

[charlie clown]

I haven't posted for ages for the dsame reason. Apart from the negative posts - people are entitled etc., etc. - I can't stand that those self-same posters keep stressing their status as martyrs because they are constantly abused, because no-one ever bothers to make a decent argument against them, because of agressive 'superfans' etc. Yet it seems to me that the most agressive 'superfannery' is from those self-same posters insisting that anyone who doesn't agree with them is blind, or at least wearing rose-tinted spectacles, does not care, does not have the long term interests of the club at heart, does not accept that Rafa can ever make mistakes, is perfectly happy with the way we are playing at the moment, is settling for mediocrity (including, ironically, the admonition that they should thus go and support Spurs, the very kind of charge they so object to themselves), can not, in effect, see what they can. There is, in many, a huge intolerance - almost a failure of comprehension - for anyone who refuses to see things in the worst possible light. I don't feel the need to justify myself, and my support, to unreasonable people.

 

They (not all, I accept) make a big fuss about the (selective) responses they get, yet are more guilty of being abusive, high and mighty and non-rational than many of those they accuse; they also regularly ignore or avoid serious debate with anyone who tries to present an alternative viewpoint - one of the long threads from last week had in the initial post something like '..and if you don't agree with me, there's no point posting..' (paraphrased), which attitude was maintained throughout; after pages of other like-minded posters agreeing, a fair amount, I accept, abusing - more of the stop whinging type than f*** off type, but ad hominem none the less - and a lot of posters making contrary arguments, the initial poster dismissed the alternative viewpoints as 'can't argue, won't argue'; all in all a complete denial of the very possibility of debate which they self-righteously claim as the justification for their own position, and the raison d'etre of these forums.

 

What summed it up for me was one of the more insistently negative posters (may have been on another forum, but the principle remains) claiming the truth for their negativity (and that of their ilk) was because they alone had 'objective opinions' - a wonderful, delusional, unarguable and disturbing oxymoron if ever there was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

excellent post, but of course the irrational rantings that have become the norm on here lately will not ackowledge that or take on board any of the points that you make.

[Stevie H]

i think the football forum has been at its best, debate wise, for a long time, and the past few weeks have seen some excellent threads and some excellent posts. its a pretty boring place when everyone agrees, and at the minute there are some excellent threads on the go.

i think it has been too, there've been some really good threads and more people getting involved than usual.

 

now all we need is to bring back rashid, 4pool and spider-neil and the circle will be complete.

[Gary Wolf]

Same s**** everywhere. I'm trying to avoid the Russian forum these days.

[The Hitman]

It's like the last days of Rome in here.

[Puskas]

i think the football forum has been at its best, debate wise, for a long time, and the past few weeks have seen some excellent threads and some excellent posts. its a pretty boring place when everyone agrees, and at the minute there are some excellent threads on the go.

Personally I don't think posting the same comments over and over on multiple threads and effectively ignoring all the replies constitutes 'debate' at all, and is the major cause of boredom (for me at least) on here.

[johngibo YPC]

Not an argument I have seen anyone use.

 

you're kidding right

[Huyton_Red]

To be honest the footy forum on here was dying a death up until a month or so ago, it was as dull as a date with anny road

 

The fact people now have something new to debate, ie rafa and the reason the team has not been playing well for 6 or 7 weeks has given the whole forum fresh impetus and there have been some good football debates on here the last few weeks

 

We are going through a bit of a sh't time at the minute, I think we can all see that and its the first time any fans have ever thought 'is rafa really up to this'

[Woodsyla]

Personally I don't think posting the same comments over and over on multiple threads and effectively ignoring all the replies constitutes 'debate' at all, and is the major cause of boredom (for me at least) on here.

 

I agree 100% banging the same drum in every thread is not remotely interesting.

[Elisha_Scott]

Picture a few months ahead and say we go on a winning streak sitting pretty in the league, all these negative people never seem to remember there depressing and overreactionry posts, weve played 11 gaves for ffs. Infact a sign of a good team is getting results when your playin badly the mancs and chelski specialse in that. When torres and co. are back I think well start destroying teams................................

 

That may be true, but it doesn't mean people cant vent frustration or feelings, worries et al on here NOW, when the team is struggling, when Rafa is making mistakes. Its called topical debate, not predicting the future.

At the moment there are problems and things that need discussing and I would imagine the very same things are being analysed by the staff and players too!

Being a football fan is a 24/7 thing, however, there is only usually 180 minutes of actual football per week, everything else is about debate or thoughts. Thats a lot of time to fill, and on here that is done by posting opinions.

There is no 100% right or wrong, but at least there are some good points raised, maybe even certain points, both negative and positive that are spot on.

[johngibo YPC]

I agree 100% banging the same drum in every thread is not remotely interesting.

 

especially when another one is started for no apparant reason